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A-1 Jacket Time Period
- Thread starter Jennison
- Start date
33-1729
Well-Known Member
In post #13 that particular SAT 32-485, a size 46, is probably the finest original example in existence. It's covered in detail on pages 148-150 in the Art Of The Flight Jacket by Jon A. Maguire & John P. Conway.
The term Limited Standard is the precise term, but Non-standard might be used for the same description so mulceber is correct: The item has been officially replaced by a newer model and remaining stock may be issued until depleted. The A-1 was listed in the Apr 1, 1944 USAAF supply catalog with sizes 38-48 available. On that note, my father was a pilot stationed at Wright Patterson and when I ask about a leather flight jacket in the early 70's he said they were still available on base for a price (I don't recall what), but I don't know which one it was (I wanted an A-2 at the time).
A2 CONTRACT DATES-UP-DATED
Seeing you’re writing a book – not an easy task! - the least I can do is offer unbridled encouragement. :) After looking at the link you attached , i still think my book would serve better ,as that data base falls far short of what i had hoped to find . But ill not be thwarted ! Im going to...
www.vintageleatherjackets.org
mulceber
Moderator
Which is really interesting in the case of the A-2, since there's pretty clear evidence that they kept buying them after May '43, when it was declared "Limited Standard." (Not saying you're wrong, just that there must have been some extenuating circumstances, and those circumstances were likely interesting.)
33-1729
Well-Known Member
Three U.S. A-2 contracts were granted in December 1943 after it was replaced by the AN-6552, likely due to AN-6552 availability issues (the AN-6552 was not listed in the Apr 1, 1944 USAAF supply catalog, though the A-1 and A-2 were both listed)
I listed a few other tidbits in the A2 CONTRACT DATES-UP DATED link above.
I listed a few other tidbits in the A2 CONTRACT DATES-UP DATED link above.
Jennison
Well-Known Member
Well, there you have it. Thank you! On another note I didn’t realize the A/C issued banana hammocks.
Jennison
Well-Known Member
“ The A-1 was listed in the Apr 1, 1944 USAAF supply catalog with sizes 38-48 available.” Wow! That is particularly interesting to know the A-1 was still an alternative late into the War.
For personnel who volunteered immediately after Pearl Harbor and therefore finished Primary and Basic Flight training around June ‘42, any idea which contracts they’d be likely to receive? Looking at the list, I’m thinking first 3 Aero, first 2 Roughwear & ‘39 Werber, but I have no idea about supply chain logistics etc. Another way to ask the question is, how likely would it be for a 6/42 Basic Flight graduate to receive say, a Dubow made in August ‘41?
For personnel who volunteered immediately after Pearl Harbor and therefore finished Primary and Basic Flight training around June ‘42, any idea which contracts they’d be likely to receive? Looking at the list, I’m thinking first 3 Aero, first 2 Roughwear & ‘39 Werber, but I have no idea about supply chain logistics etc. Another way to ask the question is, how likely would it be for a 6/42 Basic Flight graduate to receive say, a Dubow made in August ‘41?
jack31916
Well-Known Member
Could the A-1 be relisted ?
It's not listed in the USAAF Class 13 Catalog from September 30, 1943....
33-1729
Well-Known Member
See page 121-S in the back of the book under part number AN6501. At the bottom of the page it says Supplement to US Army Armed Forces Illustrated Catalog. I suspect they don't want to publicize they had some of the old stuff too.
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Jennison
Well-Known Member
This "non-standard vs limited standard" differentiation has been bugging me ever since I posted the question, so I looked into DoD terminology. In fact, as used by the US military, "non-standard" and "limited standard" are separate and distinct terms. The term "procurement" is key in understanding the difference. “Procurement” refers to the process by which the United States government acquires goods and services for its armed forces. "Procurement" does not refer to acquisition within the military by a branch, unit or individual. With that in mind, here are the two pertinent definitions: "Non-standard" is defined as “an item of supply determined by standardization action as not authorized for procurement [emphasis mine].” On the other hand, "Limited Standard" is defined as "an item of supply determined by standardization action as authorized by procurement only to support in-service military materiel requirements [emphasis mine].”
So, for "non-standard," I interpret this as meaning that the US could no longer purchase A-1 jackets from suppliers for its stores; what was left could be issued or purchased within the AAF while supplies lasted.
As for "limited standard," because the AAF made an allowance for those who were originally provided A-2 jackets as standard issue, the US could indeed continue to purchase A-2 jackets from suppliers, but only as was necessary to fulfill that specific intended-use purpose.
In looking at the catalog listing immediately above this post, I notice the codes in reference to each item. While this is pure conjecture on my part because I am not familiar with the catalog, "NS R" might indicate "non-standard, regulation." (we won't be buying any more but you can wear one) while "S "R" means you can wear one and we can order more of them as standard, general intended-use purposes. I wonder if there also is an "LS R" code in that catalog, or a later version of one.
The short of it is, had John Chapman used the term "limited-standard" as opposed to "non-standard" to describe an A-1 jacket as of May, 1931, he would have been incorrect.
So, for "non-standard," I interpret this as meaning that the US could no longer purchase A-1 jackets from suppliers for its stores; what was left could be issued or purchased within the AAF while supplies lasted.
As for "limited standard," because the AAF made an allowance for those who were originally provided A-2 jackets as standard issue, the US could indeed continue to purchase A-2 jackets from suppliers, but only as was necessary to fulfill that specific intended-use purpose.
In looking at the catalog listing immediately above this post, I notice the codes in reference to each item. While this is pure conjecture on my part because I am not familiar with the catalog, "NS R" might indicate "non-standard, regulation." (we won't be buying any more but you can wear one) while "S "R" means you can wear one and we can order more of them as standard, general intended-use purposes. I wonder if there also is an "LS R" code in that catalog, or a later version of one.
The short of it is, had John Chapman used the term "limited-standard" as opposed to "non-standard" to describe an A-1 jacket as of May, 1931, he would have been incorrect.
33-1729
Well-Known Member
Excellent!
We have the paperwork for when the A-2 was made "Limited Standard" and it all lines up, with the government purchasing around a hundred thousand A-2's after that date (below).
I've never seen the paperwork for when the A-1 was replaced by the A-2. Maybe "Limited Standard" or "Non-Standard"? Either way we don't know of any A-1 contracts after the A-2 was introduced.
We have the paperwork for when the A-2 was made "Limited Standard" and it all lines up, with the government purchasing around a hundred thousand A-2's after that date (below).
I've never seen the paperwork for when the A-1 was replaced by the A-2. Maybe "Limited Standard" or "Non-Standard"? Either way we don't know of any A-1 contracts after the A-2 was introduced.
33-1729
Well-Known Member
I don't know.
I've gone through the National Archives Records Administration (NARA), Smithsonian, Wright-Patt, US Army Quartermaster General Museum, and a few others when digging. From experience NARA in Washington DC is the best bet.
Mr Eastman was able to estimate production figures for Werber 34-518P (~170 jackets) and Werber 37-1119P (~620 jackets), based upon the paperwork he found while at NARA. It may be there for Werber 33-1729 and ACT 37-3061P. Maybe even some A-1 paperwork too. The NARA staff is excellent and going in person is always best.
I've gone through the National Archives Records Administration (NARA), Smithsonian, Wright-Patt, US Army Quartermaster General Museum, and a few others when digging. From experience NARA in Washington DC is the best bet.
Mr Eastman was able to estimate production figures for Werber 34-518P (~170 jackets) and Werber 37-1119P (~620 jackets), based upon the paperwork he found while at NARA. It may be there for Werber 33-1729 and ACT 37-3061P. Maybe even some A-1 paperwork too. The NARA staff is excellent and going in person is always best.
