“Name That A2.... And The Winner Is.....”

[WingAndaPrayer]

A couple of weeks ago this thread was started to help bring a little bit of “ Vintage ” back into VLJ . The thread seems to have been well received, so as I had mentioned my intent was to try and post an original jacket every couple of weeks, in hopes that others might join in as well and post some of their originals. Hopefully, with an eye towards describing some of the traits of their contract jackets and to pass along some of what we learned about identifying the different contracts and manufacturers to the newer or younger guys just getting into this hobby. So with that in mind , the next original issued A2 jacket I’d like to post today is the Horsehide Perry Sportswear 42-161475P contract A2 jacket seen below .
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Perry Sportswear was awarded three contracts during the war and the 16275 P contract was their second contract awarded in May of 1942, for 50,000 jackets. Rather than get into all of the finer details of the contract , let’s concentrate on those traits that make the Perry Sportswear A2 one of the most recognizable original jackets of WWII . One of the most notable traits of a Perry Sportswear A2 is the short rounded collar . Unlike most contracts of that period, Perry’s have a very Identifiable collar . While the Doniger has a pointed, longer collar similar to a shirt collar, the PS has a short rounded collar as seen below .View attachment 60741
This is typical of all of the three PS contracts.
So that’s the first give away that the jacket is made by PS . Now another quirk about the Perry is that many of them had an off set label and leather hanger that was sewn in offset from the centerline of the collar and jacket lining . I’m not sure if this was a trait that was found on all PS contracts but it’s certainly a quirk with this jacket . Here you can see how the jacket hanger strap and label are offset from the center of the collar . Hopefully others can weigh in here and relate their knowledge of this trait.
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Looking at the back of the collar you can see that this contract has a collar stand and you can see the attachment points for the collar hanger are offset .View attachment 60747
Moving out to the Epaulettes we can see that they are attached in front of the shoulder seams, with the back edge of the epaulette butted up against the shoulder seam . They are sewn in with an X-Box rectangle at the shoulder tip end and again at the collar seam end . The epaulettes have double row stitching on both sides of the epaulette . View attachment 60748
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Moving to the next area of interest is the multiple piece interior wind flap that is found on many PS jackets . The interior wind flap is sectioned into 3 sections on many of these jackets . Many presume this was done by the manufacturer to save materials by using smaller sections of Horsehide rather than one complete strip . I honestly don’t know if that’s the case, but with wartime production anything is possible and desired if it saved time, materials and money . View attachment 60751
Shifting now to the pockets of the PS A2 , a unique trait of the attachment of the corners of the pockets, which differed from mostly all other manufacturers who used triangular stitches, were the small square stitch box attachment points seen here .View attachment 60752
The pockets on the PS A2 also have a distinctive wider pocket flap and the pockets have rounded corners, which all combine to make the pockets look a slight bit smaller that the other contracts .

How in the world would it be more expedient to make 3 small panels instead of one ?

 

[B-Man2]

How in the world would it be more expedient to make 3 small panels instead of one ?

Good question, I think it was simply a materials saving measure where they had excess pieces of hide and utilized them rather than toss them out .

 

[warguy]

What a great write up, thank you! As I mentioned earlier, the jacket shown in my Avatar is an original Perry Sportswear third contract. I learned so much more about it from reading this post. Every detail you described is present on my jacket as well, including the off set tag and hanger, which I have never noticed as my jacket spends most of its time displayed on a coat form. I just checked it though, and sure eneough, both hanger and tag are significantly offset just like the one shown in this post. I wonder why that is? I believe Eastmans book comments on the three piece construction of the zipper fly and also states that it was a cost savings or materials measure. I can only imagine the scraps floor when these jackets were being made, and to be able to use three smaller pieces of leather instead of cutting a long one must have saved materials I would think. I also believe Eastmans book (I loaned my copy out just last week) indicates that the three piece construction was limited to third contract, but I will have to check again to be sure. If that is what it states, clearly Perry started this earlier. Thanks again for this post. Some very distinctive features with this manufacturer to be sure. By the way, is the leather on the jacket in this post goatskin? I am 99% sure mine is horsehide russet color. Kevin

 

[mulceber]

Good question, I think it was simply a materials saving measure where they had excess pieces of hide and utilized them rather than toss them out .

Exactly: smaller panels means it’s easier to use more of the leather and less gets wasted. They can cut the 3 smaller leather pieces out of scraps, instead of having to cut into a bigger piece that could be used for a sleeve, or something similar. This is a win-win for the company: if there’s extra leather left over, they can make more jackets and sell them on the civilian market. Using the leather more efficiently also reduces the chances that the amount of leather sent by the government will prove insufficient for filling the present shipment, which did sometimes happen.

I also believe Eastmans book (I loaned my copy out just last week) indicates that the three piece construction was limited to third contract, but I will have to check again to be sure.

I just checked my copy. He claims the 3 part panels were a feature only of the 2nd contract (the one you and Burt each have), and that only the first Perry contract was in Goatskin. I seem to recall JC’s website saying that last part as well.

 

[London Cabbie]

Hey Guys ..
How often have we’d played the “Name The A2” game lately ? Not too frequently right? , but a number of years ago, back when I was a newbie, the seasoned guys on VLJ played the game a whole lot more than we do today . Of course vintage jackets were more prevalent back then and a lot of the old timers had great collections, which they posited photos of and discussed the nuances of each maker and contract . Whenever someone challenged them by posting an unknown maker A2, they were damn good at the game and nailed the jacket down in one or two posts . Being a newbie, I was always pretty impressed and wondered how in the hell they did that . What made them so damned good, that they could spot a jacket by a particular maker and in some instances even pick the right contract from that maker. Keep in mind that there was no A2 Manual by Gary Eastman yet. This was 2008- 2009 and he was still in the process of doing his research for his book which wouldn’t be published until 2012 . Now don’t get me wrong , the information was out there, but if you wanted to be knowledgeable in learning about and identifying A2 jackets, you had to do your own research , read a lot , and search the web. One of the Internet resources many of us used was AcmeDepot.com , “ The Type A2 Flight Jacket” by Marc Weinshenker
It provided many of us with what we thought at the time, was some spot on information about the A2 jacket .
As the years passed I came to realize that there was no hidden formula, no secret documents available just a keen interest in the hobby and reading all you could find, that made those guys so good at this hobby . Those guys knew the subtleties of whether the epaulettes of each contract sat on the shoulder seam , in front of it , or behind it . They knew which contracts had collar stands and which didn’t , and they knew the cut and shape of the pockets and the flaps of each maker and contract . All from memory . These guys were good and many of them are still with us today. I hope they don’t mind if I single them out and say thanks, because while they never knew it, these guys were my mentors here, and I read and learned everything I could from guys like Vic (Silver Surfer) Grant , George Hzu, John Chapman,
Andrew Swatland and Ken from Aero .
Thanks to all of them . So with this in mind I thought it would be nice to sort of pay it forward and share some of what I’ve learned with some of the newer guys here today . OK disclaimer time . Let me say that while I’ve learned a lot , I’m am in no way in the league of some of the guys I mentioned . I’m not an expert , just a hobby enthusiast like most of you however, I’ll try and share what little I know on jacket identification with you guys .
My Op/Plan is to post some photos of original jackets I’m fortunate enough to own and to discuss the properties of the jacket , the contract and the maker. I’ll break it up and do one jacket a week, so hopefully it won’t be too boring . So with that, let’s get into our first jacket and try to nail down some characteristics, which you will remember the next time you see a similar jacket and help you to identify it as a Aero Leather
Company 15142P A2 jacket .

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One of the very first things that stands out on all Aero jackets is the square cut , sharp cornered pockets on the jacket . Many of the other makers pockets have a bit of a rounded look to them , but Aeros are square and sharp.
Additionally the pocket flap is wide and covers up about the upper 1/3 of the pocket. You’ll notice that on this jacket the left pocket flap edge has a bit of an angle cut while the right flap is cut straighter. That’s one of the traits of wartime production , always remember your jacket was made by the cheapest bidder.
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The next thing you’ll notice is that the earlier Aeros made from about 1937-1939 all used small ball stud United Carr snaps on the collars and pocket flaps . Around 1940-1941 Aero changed to large ring ball United Carr stud snaps like the ones pictured above and continued using these until the end of production of the Aero A2 in 1942.
The next thing you should know is that starting in October of 1941 Aero dumped the collar stand on their jackets . So any Aero A2 made from 1937 to 1940 will have a collar stand . That’s the first three contracts .
After 1940 the last three contracts do not have collar stands . Why is this important ? Well if you happen to find an Aero with a collar stand then it’s an early model Aero . Also if someone is trying to sell you an Aero and telling you it’s an early model but it doesn’t have a collar stand ......well that dog just ain’t gonna hunt ! View attachment 59057
Another trait of all Aero jackets is the position of the Epaulettes in relationship to the shoulder seams on the jacket . Another tell tale sign is that all Aeros have their epaulettes in front of the shoulder seam with the back edge of the epaulette right up to the shoulder seam . As shown below .View attachment 59058
Well .. I hit the send sign and I wasn’t finished so I’ll continue this with another post below . Sorry

Thankyou Burt.
Wanted to say a bit more but the kids were jumping on top of me, as it’s a day off for me.
Brilliant thread, really informative and helpful.
Dubow & 55j14…?
Thanks for the time & effort Burt.

 

[B-Man2]

My apologies guys this entire article on the Perry Sportswear jacket was reposted under its own thread .

 

[warguy]

Thanks for the clarification on the three panels.