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Modern issue A-2: the new collector item?
- Thread starter WingAndaPrayer
- Start date
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
I know- I meant that as a general "you"! Blunt? Hahaha
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
I respect everyone’s opinion on this subject but let me offer a differing one . I ‘ll cut right to the point .
I think that in time these jackets will be collectible . Here’s why ..
Originals will continue to disappear. Why ? Because they will be bought up by collectors younger than yourselves and either be worn until they disintegrate and are lost forever Or
they will go into collections and remain there for the next 20 years … much like those originals in collections today, and those that might be offered for sale, will be cost prohibitive except for those financially able to pay the asking price. OR they will remain in collections until after some of us are gone.
So repros will dominate this hobby ….. much as they do today.
Now as for the “new A2’s”
These are available now at ridiculously low prices …. If any of you are old enough to remember in the 1957 - 1960s original A2s were being sold for $15.00 -$20.00 each .
Any guy that bought a carload of them made money on them, has a great collection of museum quality jackets and probably still have them in their collection today if they’re still alive.
Next … in spite of whether you’re pro or con on these jackets, they are USAF issued military flight jackets and that one fact in of itself .. makes them attractive to military and flight jacket collectors. They were worn by pilots who went to war in them , flew F-16s and F-15s in places like Bosnia and Iraq , again that’s another reason they will be collectibles.
Lastly .. there are those who just don’t like the jacket because they don’t conform or duplicate the look of the original A2 contacts of WWII. They don’t like the cut of the jacket the pocket flaps, the epaulettes… etc
Those are all valid and fare opinions.
Not criticizing them , but those opinions are solely based on the esthetics of the jacket and don’t take into account the historical significance of the jacket.
In my opinion I think that these jackets aren’t being given the credit they deserve .
I think that much of the dislike for them revolves around the guy who was involved in producing them . Personally depending on the manufacturer, I find these jackets to have some very nice and supple goatskin.
Lastly at the prices these jackets are currently selling , I would rather own and wear an original USAF jacket previously owned by a guy who had been there and used the jacket, than a 2nd tier repro jacket .
Yes .. Good Wears still rule the repro market but if we’re talking about a collectable original jacket .. now’s the time to buy a couple of these for less than the price of a cheap repro. Just my opinion. Take a close look at this goatskin .
I think that in time these jackets will be collectible . Here’s why ..
Originals will continue to disappear. Why ? Because they will be bought up by collectors younger than yourselves and either be worn until they disintegrate and are lost forever Or
they will go into collections and remain there for the next 20 years … much like those originals in collections today, and those that might be offered for sale, will be cost prohibitive except for those financially able to pay the asking price. OR they will remain in collections until after some of us are gone.
So repros will dominate this hobby ….. much as they do today.
Now as for the “new A2’s”
These are available now at ridiculously low prices …. If any of you are old enough to remember in the 1957 - 1960s original A2s were being sold for $15.00 -$20.00 each .
Any guy that bought a carload of them made money on them, has a great collection of museum quality jackets and probably still have them in their collection today if they’re still alive.
Next … in spite of whether you’re pro or con on these jackets, they are USAF issued military flight jackets and that one fact in of itself .. makes them attractive to military and flight jacket collectors. They were worn by pilots who went to war in them , flew F-16s and F-15s in places like Bosnia and Iraq , again that’s another reason they will be collectibles.
Lastly .. there are those who just don’t like the jacket because they don’t conform or duplicate the look of the original A2 contacts of WWII. They don’t like the cut of the jacket the pocket flaps, the epaulettes… etc
Those are all valid and fare opinions.
Not criticizing them , but those opinions are solely based on the esthetics of the jacket and don’t take into account the historical significance of the jacket.
In my opinion I think that these jackets aren’t being given the credit they deserve .
I think that much of the dislike for them revolves around the guy who was involved in producing them . Personally depending on the manufacturer, I find these jackets to have some very nice and supple goatskin.
Lastly at the prices these jackets are currently selling , I would rather own and wear an original USAF jacket previously owned by a guy who had been there and used the jacket, than a 2nd tier repro jacket .
Yes .. Good Wears still rule the repro market but if we’re talking about a collectable original jacket .. now’s the time to buy a couple of these for less than the price of a cheap repro. Just my opinion. Take a close look at this goatskin .
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ZuZu
Well-Known Member
No one's arguing that these jackets won't be collectible on some level- my argument is that these jackets have NOWHERE near the aesthetic or historical value of original WW2 A-2s. They are simply too ugly and are the creation of a boring historical time.
WW2 A-2s are interesting because they are varied in execution and were made with beautiful materials basically unavailable today. The modern government issue A-2 is made of generic and unpleasing to the eye crap. The patterns of each of many WW2 contractors differed widely and became an aesthetic "thing" of their own. The pattern of the modern A-2 is basically the same between all contractors (ditto the G-1) and is an UGLY pattern- blousy, wide-shouldered, with those hideous pocket flaps.
WW2 A-2s are interesting because of the amazing history of the men who flew in WW2. Adventure and horror. If you wore one of these jackets you had a good chance of getting killed or injured- even more than a grunt. There is an individuality- a soul- to these jackets which amazes us. The modern A-2 is an ornamental object meant to serve a propaganda purpose. Not to be worn in flight. If you wore (or wear) one of these jackets there is almost zero chance anything bad will happen to you except an accident- even in a war the training and technological advantage give you a low chance of being killed or injured.
WW2 A-2s are interesting because they are the product of a nation in the full flower of its industrial and historical primacy. Everything we made back then was great (except tanks) and we stood as a moral and democratic beacon to much of the world. The modern A-2 is the product of an world dominating empire which was losing (and now has lost completely) its way. It is a propaganda tool harking back to former glory.
So yes- these modern A-2s will be collected- but not revered or thought odf as amazing. IMO
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
The topic of the thread is
“Modern issue A-2: the new collector item?”
My response was geared to the collectability of the jacket not its aesthetic appearance or its ability to duplicate or compete aesthetically with a WWII A2 jacket. And while I respect your opinion regarding your dislike of the jacket .. I completely disagree with your statements regarding this being a propaganda piece . I can’t even comprehend to how this jacket can be made into a “propaganda tool “ and political symbol of a “World dominating empire” that has lost its way …. That is just an exceptional fabrication of the intent and purpose of these jackets IMHO.
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ZuZu
Well-Known Member
I think my last post veered close to the "no politics" line and I apologize. That being said- the modern A-2 was definitely designed and marketed as harkening back to the glory days of WW2 albeit more as a cool thing to have. If you look at the weird weird weird new US Army uniform (and attendant A-2) there is an unabashed reference to the glory days of yore- propaganda to a ridiculous extent.
From the official USAF story:
Flyers liked them, and many kept them after the war, never dreaming that two later generations would prize them and that a number of companies would sell copies at prices many times their original cost to the government. The A-2 jacket was reborn in 1987 for a new generation of pilots and flight crew members to commemorate the Air Force’s fortieth anniversary and to rekindle esprit de corps.
Your rekindling espirit de corps- my propaganda.
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You're so full of shit your eyes are brown.
"Almost zero chance". There's always a chance, that's why I got paid the big bucks. And there were quite a few pissed off Iraqis doing their damnedest to make me a greasy spot in the sky. So do yourself a favorite and don't try to demean actual combat. It's always dangerous and deadly, regardless of the time or place.
And the current A-2? The originals are nicer, but chicks always liked me when I wore mine.
P-47 thunderbolt
Well-Known Member
I think Zuzu was meaning that modern A2s aren't worn in combat, so there's little chance of being killed wearing one, whereas ww2 A2s were worn in combat and so hold a stronger connection to those who wore them
Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
That jacket looks absolutely good to me - if it might be for sale i'd be interested ...
I'm with Burt and i do think even the more modern A2 and even without any combat "experience" they will be collectables at some point.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Thomas
PM me …
BTW
When you wear your new boots cut all the labels off of them . They’ll look better.
Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
153 aircraft shot down Iraq war. of which 46 were lost to hostile fire. 46 out of around 116,000 sorties. It might have been exciting but like I said the chances of getting killed approached zero. Combined with the Afghanistan debacle over 20 years 305 aircraft lost with 70 lost to hostile fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Iraq_War
It may have seemed dangerous but the combination of complete air superiority and excellent training and experience made it hardly deadly- nowhere near WW2. Take the compliment- there was never a better full spectrum dominance air force than ours during this time. The goal was reached- statistically almost fatality free combat- accidents killed more people.
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
Everyone's going to hate me for saying this but it needs to be said- "combat" flying in the USAF or Marines or US Army since the Vietnam war is not even minutely comparable to Vietnam, Korea or WW2 combat flying. It's a technical exercise compared to the horrible statistics of those conflicts. It's "actual combat" in name but hardly in reality- it's not peer to peer but rather overwhelming superiority- at least in the United States' latest conflicts.
This not not to demean actual US military pilots! They are the most skillful, well trained intelligent group in anyone's military! The best! The challenges they faced getting to be such pilots are worthy of our admiration and respect! Like the aircraft they fly they are truly amazing! This training and technical ability and intelligence gives these pilots a very good chance of living long and exciting lives.
But the United States way of war recently does not give these pilots the panache of the pilots of yore. That air of imminent death those poor schlubs carried isn't there. I do not doubt that given the chance today's pilots would step up- in fact I know they would- but that opportunity hasn't been there for a long time...
So those modern A-2s harken back to a time when an airman stood a 1 in 25 or 1 in 100 or 1 in 300 chance of being killed or maimed but today that's just a fantasy.
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
Yes yes, And after all that notice how the collar of the modern one has a similar look. A hard thing for the repro guys...
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
I really think we’ve lost the focus of the discussion . There was never a doubt that the original A2’s were better in every detail than the modern A2 issued jacket. The discussion if I remember correctly was, would they be collectable in years to come.When the original RW on the left has rotted away over time or gotten so expensive that average collectors can no longer afford them and not considered worth collecting, then the only originals available to collect will be modern issued A2 jackets unless you go with repros.
That was the original question and topic of the thread . I think we’ve gone away from that with a lot of superfluous BS.
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Pilot
Well-Known Member
I have several « Saddlery » issued A-2’s ( all from USAF bases in Korea ir Japan ) .. they sell like hot cake!… and are great to wear.
They can take much more burden pe roling them up into a little bundle and stuff them into your bag as the « WW2 version » would ever endure without any damage.
They can take much more burden pe roling them up into a little bundle and stuff them into your bag as the « WW2 version » would ever endure without any damage.
Erwin
Well-Known Member
I assume that none of the forum members will live long enough to see the times when flight jackets such as those made by Saddlery will have a significant collector's value.
Anyway, modern contract USAF leather flight jackets are not bad budget option. Also, those jackets are still genuine contract pieces, not a repro which shouldn't have any historical value [even when made by well skilled enthusiast somewhere in the USA]. Any not flight leather jacket gimp wouldn't see difference if wearer wears a genuine WW2 jacket or Saddlery one
Anyway, modern contract USAF leather flight jackets are not bad budget option. Also, those jackets are still genuine contract pieces, not a repro which shouldn't have any historical value [even when made by well skilled enthusiast somewhere in the USA]. Any not flight leather jacket gimp wouldn't see difference if wearer wears a genuine WW2 jacket or Saddlery one
Pilot
Well-Known Member
Agree, it does not have the glamour of the WW2I assume that none of the forum members will live long enough to see the times when flight jackets such as those made by Saddlery will have a significant collector's value.
Anyway, modern contract USAF leather flight jackets are not bad budget option. Also, those jackets are still genuine contract pieces, not a repro which shouldn't have any historical value [even when made by well skilled enthusiast somewhere in the USA]. Any not flight leather jacket gimp wouldn't see difference if wearer wears a genuine WW2 jacket or Saddlery one
A-2’s… but… its goat is souple and strong.. and the coating does not peel off or does not become orange ( as does the goat of crapola makers ).
The studs from « DOT » are solid and legit military unlike the studs from some UK maker .
The same applies for the knitwear…solid legit and almost bullet proof…. So is the Gripper or Ideal zipper.
As for patina.. it gets a nice patina if you wear it… again without loosing coating or scuffing.
Finally its lower in price than most of the « fakes » or second grade repros on the market… and is still a 100% legit military A-2..
