WW2 fit is irrelevant

[Tim P]

Unless you are a reenactor/ living historian actively involved in a period display, how jackets were worn in the second world war (snug as a bug or slopey shoulders, wrinkled arms and blousey with all points in between) is utterly irrelevant.

Wear to your own comfort and individual sense of style.

Its ok to prefer seal over russet, havana over tobacco, goat over horse, dubow over roughwear, so why not prefer a little shoulder droop (I hear people cringe as I write this) or wear it with your trouser belt showing along with your scaphoid process and your arms pinned to your sides if the fancy takes you.
If you are matching your A-2 with gap or buzz chinos, vintage buckle back levis or JC Penney flares or a black watch kilt it is all about your own preference.

I cant see myself how an authentic ww2 fit (or the VLJ gold standard interpretation of same) is made all important when the ensemble is topped off with a fedora. If the complementary headgear is a B2 cap, A11 helmet, garrison or crusher cap, the typical fit mandate has more relevance.

Discuss

 

[Cobblers161]

Well Tim, having seen lots and lots of WW2 pics I'm not so sure there is such a thing as an authentic WW2 fit. There is, however, an authentic WW2 jacket and whether that fits is down to whether one has an authentic WW2 body.

All this stuff about the correct fit is a little nonsensical if you're not in your late teens early 20's. What is of the prime importance is not the shape of the wearer but the shape of the jacket.


You're absolutely right wear to suit your own comfort.

 

[John Lever]

Remember the WW2 body shape also, 20 year lads without an ounce of fat ...

 

[Roughwear]

But not everyone who served in the USAAF was a 20 year-old without an ounce of fat. There were certainly many older and larger guys as plenty of WW2 pics show.

 

[philip.ed]

Wouldn't they have just bought the item to suit them? The same way that I buy any piece of clothing to suit my own sense of fashion.
So I agree Tim; there is no real right or wrong (other than, of course, if you are reenacting: safety from a pilot's perspective)

 

[Roughwear]

Ben, they were issued with flight jackets that were more or less appropriate for their size.

 

[John Lever]

The ones that could afford to had their gear altered by tailors. My wife's grandfather was a tailor in Vienna and did it for many officers. Ironically his family were also sheltering a Jewish family at the same time.

 

[Roughwear]

This late 1941 picture from the GW website illustrates that there was not a proper fit at all for the A-2. There is quite a range in ages and sizes.
http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/Proper_A2_Fit.jpg

 

[Jaguar46]

This late 1941 picture from the GW website illustrates that there was not a proper fit at all for the A-2. There is quite a range in ages and sizes.

Want to see some droopy shoulders, look at the top row guys. They all must have had Roughwears

 

[Roughwear]

There do appear to be quite a few Roughwears in the picture with droopy shoulders, but also some Aeros judging by the square pockets corners.

 

[philip.ed]

But what I mean is, many RAF pilots chose their gear (when issued) based on what they found comfortable. And if it wasn't comfortable in practice, then they resulted to other means. Maybe pre-war standards were adapated to a more 'conveyor-belt' method once there was a war on? I mean, as far as helmets are cocerned, I've seen pilots with ones which fit and ones which clearly don't, but there are pilot accounts which express how they chose their gear in their local store, and others which express that they were just issued with their kit (as you say, Andrew).
But even if they were issued their kit, it wouldn't be to the extent that a perfect fit was guaranteed, which does highlight Tim's point that there isn't a 'numero-uno' type of fit.

 

[Roughwear]

This is all true Ben. It is well known that RAF officers bought their own uniforms from various tailors, just as USAAF officers did and of course could achieve the "perfect" fit. I was thinking more of Irvins and A2s which were usually an issued item and you see enormous variation in fit.

 

[HackerF15E]

There's really never been any difference in the military clothing supply system. When you're issued equipment, sometimes available stock allows you to pick and choose between different examples to find one you like. Other times you're stuck with what you're given.

That's true for today's flight equipment, and was true then, too.

 

[dmar836]

I agree to an extent but some like the raglan sleeve feel with the shoulder seams way down the shoulders. Others like an overall baggy feel. Nobody likes a jacket too small. If I want a full feel or want to wear a thick sweater, I reach for a different jacket.
You can buy "flight jackets" like this with the modern cut but it is typically those we do not aspire to and refer to as not authentic.

All said, wear what you like but also realize that to adjust the contract radically to fit your style might not yield an authentic looking A-2 contract. No harm or fowl but just sayin'.

IMO, compact street cars look silly with huge wings on back, skinny nerdy yuppies look silly with bandanas and leather chaps on their new Harley's, and many people don't look good in cycling shorts or belly shirts. In some cases, maybe we just shouldn't force it!

Honesty with ourselves is the best policy.

JMO,
Dave

 

[HackerF15E]

No harm or fowl

What do the birds have to do with it?

:geek:

 

[Ian C]

All the collars snapped down too. Are these recruits, so that they would have adapted them as they wore them during service? Btw, I like my collars snapped down and I like a WWII fit even though it's a struggle with a 41 year old 21st Century physique. Each to their own though I say.
Ian

 

[Ian C]

This late 1941 picture from the GW website illustrates that there was not a proper fit at all for the A-2. There is quite a range in ages and sizes.

Want to see some droopy shoulders, look at the top row guys. They all must have had Roughwears

All the collars snapped down too. Are these recruits, so that they would have adapted them as they wore them during service? Btw, I like my collars snapped down and I like a WWII fit even though it's a struggle with a 41 year old 21st Century physique. Each to their own though I say.
Ian

 

[capt71]

Way back in 2008 there was a discussion thread about A-2 fit. At that time I mentioned that I thought there was way too much worry about how an A-2 was "supposed" to fit. I still stick to that. As I said there, the A-2 you see a star actor wearing in a movie was, in almost every instance, tailored specifically for him--thus the trim, snug, fit a lot of folks now think is the only correct fit. As was said there and here, the guys back then mostly got the A-2s they were issued. If they wanted them tailored later, that was up to them. All of the vintage photos I've ever seen of A-2s being worn in the WW2 era show a large variety of fits. Nobody seemed to worry about it then. BTW, what exactly is a "WW2 fit" (I've seen that term used a lot)?

IMHO, the correct fit for an A-2 (or any other jacket for that matter) is what is comfortable for the wearer. If you prefer a snug, slimmer fit, go for it. If a roomier fit is more comfortable, then that's correct for you. However, "image" seems to be the overriding fit-factor nowadays. Of course, if the jacket waist droops to your knees, the shoulder seams are at your elbows, and the sleeves drag on the ground, then that could probably be considered an improper fit.

Bill

 

[better duck]

Anybody got the crew photos of the Doolittle Raiders handy? Those guys are not recruits but seasoned veterans from units all over the USAAC (or was it AAF then already?) with the jackets to match. If you see the fit of the jackets on those flyers, the discussion on "WW2" fit is over: every kind of fit is - apparently - WW2 fit.
That having said, I like my jackets with square shouders and close fitting.
Right now they are a bit too close fitting for comfort, so 10KG have to go ... So eating fruit, veggies, no chips, all for the greater good of a well fitting A2!

 

[unclegrumpy]

John has the Doolittle Raider crew pictures on his site. Each are linked at the bottom of this link:

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/links.html

Also, the picture with the fellows with their A-2 collars snapped down and jackets zipped up are not "recruits", but rather Aviation Cadets. These guys are probably just starting their primary flight training.