White tag black tag, USN up and down what's the difference?

[Wedge417]

Hi everyone,

Since my recent renewal with flight jackets and my so far unfruitful quest for a decent vintage G-1, (I just bought one that would be much loved but unfortunately is too big for me).

I've realised there are, like for any military wear, quite specific little things and detail. My question for your wisdom today is in two points.

First, what's the difference between white tags and black tags on G-1 jackets?

From what I see, white tags used to be standard U.S military up until a certain date.

Perhaps you can tell me when the transition happened and why?

Also in terms of collecting I've read here and there that one should favour black tags over white tags? Would this mean that a white tag and black tag of same contract and same year will have a different collectible value for the connoisseur?

Second, why is it some jackets have the USN pierced with the U a the top and other jackets have it the other way around.

Is it contract specific? year specific? or just a random anomaly?

Also if you have any literature recommendation or links I could explore to develop my knowledge I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[mulceber]

From what I see, white tags used to be standard U.S military up until a certain date.

My understanding, and I'm not an expert on Navy jackets, is that the black spec labels are jackets that were issued, whereas the white labels are jackets that were never issued and were sold as surplus. That's why, if you look at all the repros out there, all of them have black labels. Nobody wants to buy a repro of a military jacket that was never issued. It's also why the white label originals normally sell for less than the black label ones.

 

[MaydayWei]

The only expert on USN Jackets is Mr. Sheeley.
But I will try my best to answer.

1. Black tags are more desirable than white tags because white tags were only ever used on the 7823E G-1 models and onwards. A white tag is, therefore, a clear-cut indicator that the jacket before you is an E model; and, so, is made of the less desirable cowhide with an 80/20 Dynel-cotton collar. Conversely, black tags were used in 7823D models or earlier. For reasons I won't get into, late 1969 models were Cowhide with Dynel-Cotton Collars despite having a black tag. Generally, however, pre 1969, any black tag G-1 indicates Goatskin and a Real Mouton Collar (which is generally more desirable). So, it is not that one tag is more desirable than another; but, rather that the colour of the tag can be a strong indication of the materials used in the jacket; Goat and mouton being the more desirable than Cowhide and Dynel-cotton (80/20) collars.

2. The way the 'USN' is put on a jacket varies depending on specification, year, and manufacturer. When they were stenciled, they were also done different ways depending on manufacturer, spec, and year etc.. I believe stenciling turned to hole punching somewhere in 1957-1958. Hence why that year's 7823 AER Calgeco contract has a mix of USN stenciled collars and USN punctured wind-flaps in lieu of stencil. That said, the important takeaway is that there was no clear set way to do it. Sure, everyone had to stencil the jacket or puncture the windflap with USN, but the exact style, the punching, or the direction of the punching wasn't specified down the the ticks of the Ts and the dots of the Is.

Hope that helps!

 

[MaydayWei]

PS. I'd be happy to help you on your G-1 search if you'd like.
So, please feel free to PM your size, budget, and desired spec. of G-1 and I'll keep and eye out.

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, like I said, Navy jackets are a bit out of my range. Glad to have someone who knows better step in.

 

[Wedge417]

Thanks a lot for the very useful and clear answers. I really enjoy learning and expanding my knowledge about vintage clothing.

 

[MikeyB-17]

A chap who really knows his way around Navy jackets is Roger Moore (no, not the late Bond actor). He used to buy and sell them, doesn’t seem to any more, his site still exists, albeit without the pics as far as I can tell, but is still an excellent source of information.

Roger Moore Jacket Collection