Stolen jacket- not WWII though.

[fishmeok]

Interesting how family stories get mixed up over the years. I hope they get it back, regardless that it's modern, has lots of sentimental value.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/28 ... st-st-paul

Cheers
Mark

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Yup, Iwo Jima? Air Force? and photo of a mall jacket? People just don't know these days and the stories are so inflated they get upset if you try to clear it up for them. My Craigslist pursuits are and endless story of finding a nice way to say it ain't what you think it is. Good luck to them, they're gonna need it, hope it finds a way home.

 

[Stony]

Too bad for the family, too bad it's not worth a whole lot.

I also have talked to children of vets who said their jacket is from WWII, but alas, a lot of them are not.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Yeah, these people seem genuinely upset over this, but in most cases the inflated story is in pursuit of big money. I mention the Craigslist dilemma, about two weeks ago I was trying to buy a set of tiger stripes this guys Granddaddy wore in Vietnam. I found the pattern to be a discontinued 1980's Tiger Stripe Production repro. Not sure if Granddad was BS'n him or he was BS'n me, but someone was full of BS. And last night, 3" AMCRAFT wing for 100- with missing pin, a "Piece of History" he called it. Offered him a fair price at 25- and showed him two completed auctions under 50- for the same wing with pin intact. Needless to say, both the Tiger Stripe and Wing guy got pretty upset to hear the truth even though my approach was very careful.

 

[Stony]

I had a gal on the phone who was selling her father's WWII Navy flight jacket. I asked her to read me the label and it turned out to be a Korean War era 7823 contract. I explained to her that it couldn't be WWII. Her father was in the room with her, and when she told him it wasn't WWII, he started yelling at her that it was. I politely explained the contract dates to her and she told her father again what I said. He got really mad to the point where he made his daughter cry. She was too upset to continue the conversation and it ended there and now I felt bad for causing everything.

It can be a delicate situation for sure sometimes.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Yes, the Veterans are likely to tell stories for sure. The general public is unaware of all the little clues and details that date an item. I get a little miffed sometimes because of people who have no idea telling me I have no idea. For that guy to get so mad at his Daughter is unacceptable, Vet or no Vet, he's a liar. OK, if you got one to replace the one you had, fine. But he probably needs to inflate the whole story because there's not much to tell in the first place. In my experience, many Vets are reluctant to talk very much and I think they're the ones with the real stories. I met Mr. OSS back a couple of years ago who was sporting a quilted B-15 in new condition. He was issued this back in 1944 along with several other flight jackets he had at home :roll: All of his jackets were in very good condition because they were only worn once or twice on covert missions :lol: After hearing him go on and on that day in the Post Office, I didn't bother with the conversation much at all and did my best to move along.

 

[dmar836]

Reminds me of tool reviews/feedback that starts off "I'm a professional XXXXX with 25 yrs experience and this item sucks/is great." Usually someone who is showing everything he knows all at once.

Then again who hasn't questioned a dealer on a date just to hear him say, "I've been collecting for 35 yrs and this is right as rain."? Another reason I don't go to many shows. They'll look at. Guy like Stony and act like they are the expert.

I give these people on the news the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it was his WWII jacket stolen but they didn't look at it close enough to know it's not the one in the pic they offered to the news. For sure, the APB put out with that pic is useless.

I've told the story of the M-43 jacket from a glider pilot vet's daughter who said it was her uncles who was killed at the Battle of the Bulge. Production date of '45. It likely belonged to her dad, his brother, but I didn't push the issue or might not have ended up with any of it!

I've talked to many who picked up surplus post war but admitted to it. Some might just forget. A B-17 BTG gave me his throat mic. I asked about it then finally said, "Is this the actual one you wore?" "Oh, no, I found that after the war but it's the same one I had". Many vets don't understand our interest in the personal connection, etc. so what's the difference to them? They weren't trying to deceive.
Gets grey for sure.

Dave

 

[ADC]

I had a gal on the phone who was selling her father's WWII Navy flight jacket. I asked her to read me the label and it turned out to be a Korean War era 7823 contract. I explained to her that it couldn't be WWII. Her father was in the room with her, and when she told him it wasn't WWII, he started yelling at her that it was. I politely explained the contract dates to her and she told her father again what I said. He got really mad to the point where he made his daughter cry. She was too upset to continue the conversation and it ended there and now I felt bad for causing everything.

It can be a delicate situation for sure sometimes.

Sometimes the fog of time can distort things. People often get confused and muddled with what happened to them decades ago. What they did, when and what they owned. He may have picked up other similar stuff over time and mixed up his memories.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I had a gal on the phone who was selling her father's WWII Navy flight jacket. I asked her to read me the label and it turned out to be a Korean War era 7823 contract. I explained to her that it couldn't be WWII. Her father was in the room with her, and when she told him it wasn't WWII, he started yelling at her that it was. I politely explained the contract dates to her and she told her father again what I said. He got really mad to the point where he made his daughter cry. She was too upset to continue the conversation and it ended there and now I felt bad for causing everything.

It can be a delicate situation for sure sometimes.

Sometimes the fog of time can distort things. People often get confused and muddled with what happened to them decades ago. What they did, when and what they owned. He may have picked up other similar stuff over time and mixed up his memories.

Nice thought, and nice to give the benefit of doubt, but a lot of these guys are still sharp as a tack. At least that was what I experienced many times over. Just a few years back, as I stood behind a couple of WW2 Vets looking through my case, I observed one stating "it's mine now" as he dropped my Hitler Youth pin into his pocket. I immediately said " How ya doin fellas" to find a couple of feeble old timers pretending not to hear me.

 

[ADC]

I may give him the benefit of the doubt but not enough to put my money on it. Yeah, some of these old timers are sharp because they have been there and done that several times over.

Interesting you say a lot of vets don't say much. Any one who blows his own trumpet too much needs to be scrutinised carefully. My grand dad was infantry in WW1 and never talked about it much Only learned more about his service history when we found his medals, records and promotions about 20 years after he died. Never knew he was wounded and also gassed. The only artefact he kept was the brush he polished his army boots with. It was his lucky charm and he looked after it.

 

[Jason]

My wife has worked in aged care all her life, and the stories she brings home of her interactions with the senior citizens... gives me hope that I won't go senile later in life. :lol: It seems the majority still have good, if not razor sharp memories later on in life. "They remember everything" were her words.
Either that, or Alzheimer's gets to you.

Sometimes in these circumstances I wonder if it's a case of the axe that has it's head & handle replaced several times, yet it's still "the same original axe"... perhaps the good lady decides to 'spruce up' that 'old thing' and lovingly transfers the patches from a Doniger to a modern day Cockpit... would the original owner notice? Lacking our critical eye for detail on jackets, probably not. It's an unlikely scenario I grant you, but possible.

Perhaps a more graceful way out of awkward situations in dealing with vets or their families would be to ask about / look at the artefact, then if it isn't as described politely say "I'll have a think about it, it's not quite what I'm looking for to add to the collection" and politely bow out that way?

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Out of respect, I would never corner an old timer into anything and as you say, I would politely back out one way or another. But some money hungry relative that gets all bent out of shape when you say the tiger stripes Granddaddy wore during the VN war were made in the 80's, I don't think so. In the past two weeks "You don't know sht" "Plenty of real collectors out there" and so on no matter how lightly you explain reality to them deserve a harsh word right back. Keyboard commandos armed with an Ebay wish-it price search. I always send a link to more than one actual completed / sold listing searches along with a nice little note "It is what it is"

 

[Stony]

What I usually say when I hear "how do you know" or "what makes you such an expert" is I tell them I have a list of every contract made by the military from the 1930s to today. That usually gets their attention and they start to believe me. I'm sure most anyone on these forums can use that as an answer.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

What I usually say when I hear "how do you know" or "what makes you such an expert" is I tell them I have a list of every contract made by the military from the 1930s to today. That usually gets their attention and they start to believe me. I'm sure most anyone on these forums can use that as an answer.

Perfect Stony, that throws it right out there that you're knowledgeable above and beyond the every day Joe. Something like that works well with everyone. " If I'm not interested i'll at least tell you what you have" or ' If I don't know I have friends that probably do"

 

[watchmanjimg]

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but this story strikes me as pure BS. The picture of the supposed jacket in question, the description of the size as "Extra Large" compared with the period photo of the typically skinny WW2 serviceman, the total ignorance of everyone involved including the reporters, etc.

Sounds like a crock . . .

 

[Brent]

I probably shouldn't have sent a note to the so called "journalist" responsible for this fluff story, but I did and here is the reply. Basically I pointed out that the jacket in question is not a WWII flight jacket, furthermore he and the pawn shop guy should have done a little more research.

thanks for the heads up. i think what you are saying is that this is not military issue? if that is the case, that's fine. we never said it was in our piece. the family says it was worn by their father when he served in combat during ww2. and he very well could have gotten this from who knows where.

i think the pawn shop guy was giving us his estimate for a "vintage" bomber jacket from the 1940's.

either way, it is a sad situation. but your point is taken. i will pass this extra piece of info on to the family.

WTF, Jonathan Choe didn't even watch is own story?

 

[watchmanjimg]

"The family says the person who took this jacket may not even realize what it is . . ."

 

[Stony]

"The family says the person who took this jacket may not even realize what it is . . ."

And they'll probably get around $50 for it.


You might have also told the journalist that the jacket is a modern repro and could not have been worn by the father during the war.

 

[watchmanjimg]

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comm ... er_jacket/

The victim has posted an online request for assistance in recovering the jacket. Here's my response:

"Ms. Palmquist, I'm very sorry to hear of the theft of your dad's jacket. As a lifelong collector of military items including many flight jackets, I was intrigued to encounter this story on another discussion forum. First of all please understand that in no way am I suggesting that this jacket was not in fact stolen from your sister's car, nor am I disputing that your father was told by his father-in-law (Mr. Steiger) that the jacket was worn during WW2. However, I have looked very closely at the pictures in the news article and there are a few problems with this claim. The jacket worn by Mr. Ramberg in the photo alongside the woman is clearly a civilian-produced garment of modern manufacture, with a styling and zipper totally unlike that of a WW2-era US military jacket (given that James Steiger is stated to have served in the US Army Air Force it would most likely be an A-2). Moreover, you indicate that the size of the jacket is approximately "Extra Large" while the period photo of Mr. Steiger shows a man of the typically slim WW2 soldier's build (likely size 36 to 40, or Small/Medium). It's unfortunate that neither the pawn-shop owner nor anyone at Fox News had any clue about the foregoing, but if you Google the A-2 flight jacket you'll see what I mean.

In my opinion your best bet in recovering this jacket is to describe it according to what is shown in your family photograph rather than as an original WW2 item as this description is misleading to anyone who may run across it. I wish you luck as the jacket is obviously of great sentimental value regardless of its origins."

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Unfortunately I think the only thing accomplished here is the destruction of a fond memory. It's not like we're saving an unknowing buyer from purchasing a fake, setting a lie straight, or helping to bring this jacket home. I think it's safe to say gone forever whatever it is. Now there's probably a bit of embarrassment and a family second guessing the whole story. I'm as guilty as anyone feeling the need to educated the people out there that mis-identify WW2 items, but I'm selective about it. Usually only informing the money grabbers with a quick GOOGLE story to pass around or the innocent guy or gal that just doesn't know. In this case, personally, I care more about the family moving with the memories intact.