Question on the "accuracy" topic.

[ButteMT61]

First off, new here, so forgive me if I've asked something already asked, etc.

Given how repros can draw the ire of purists, how do we justify custom jackets as opposed to off the rack sizes? Wouldn't it be more accurate to get a jacket as close as possible with numbered sizing and deal with it? This is not in any way meant to be sarcastic - in spite of my tendency to do such things. I know for me, I really have to get lucky for an off the rack to fit right, but it kinda seems like cheating on the authentic aspect to order a custom-fitting jacket.
Thoughts? Stupid question?
I'm glad they do custom, but was curious how much this matters, if at all?

 

[RCSignals]

Are you referring to letter range sizing vs numerical sizing or actual custom Meade to measure tailoring?

 

[ButteMT61]

Are you referring to letter range sizing vs numerical sizing or actual custom Meade to measure tailoring?

Buying a 44/48/50 as opposed to ordering one custom made. One with longer arms, shorter body, etc.
For instance, getting a Schott jacket off the web instead of an ELC, Aero, etc. with all custom bits.

 

[Tim P]

Its a bloody good point. I bet the percentage of airmen who had their flight jackets tailored was a fraction of a per cent.
I have long maintained this.

welcome by the way

 

[RCSignals]

If you are such a size or have dimensions that you need custom work, go for it. The jacket will look better and feel better.
Many times people buy 'long' sizes because of long arms or torso but end up with some aspect off, such as too long a jacket body or correct jacket body and too long sleeves.
You see a great varying fit in WW2 photos, guys with sleeves ending above their wrist bone, etc etc.
Today you have choices, and can go for a well proportioned fitting jacket or something that doesn't fit or look right as you might have been issued in WW2. Then again that standard sized jacket just might be it.

 

[ButteMT61]

Its a bloody good point. I bet the percentage of airmen who had their flight jackets tailored was a fraction of a per cent.
I have long maintained this.

welcome by the way

Thank you. That was my thinking. Some guys get pretty harsh on the accuracy of jacket/maker X and I was thinking, jeez, with all the customizing, even a good repro is now really kinda froo froo
WWII guys would probably (sans officers) laugh at that point - or not?

 

[ButteMT61]

If you are such a size or have dimensions that you need custom work, go for it. The jacket will look better and feel better.
Many times people buy 'long' sizes because of long arms or torso but end up with some aspect off, such as too long a jacket body or correct jacket body and too long sleeves.
You see a great varying fit in WW2 photos, guys with sleeves ending above their wrist bone, etc etc.
Today you have choices, and can go for a well proportioned fitting jacket or something that doesn't fit or look right as you might have been issued in WW2. Then again that standard sized jacket just might be it.

I've had a few custom Aero's now. But looking at a GW A2 & A1 (once production starts again) and was reading some threads today where LW got a bit of a slammin'. Made me think of this out of curiosity.
I like custom, and every once in a while I get lucky with a used or off the shelf model.

 

[Dr H]

But looking at a GW A2 & A1 (once production starts again) .

Scott, John's maximum size for the A-1 is a wartime 46 (modern 44), due to scarcity of the hide, don't you take a larger jacket?

 

[ButteMT61]

But looking at a GW A2 & A1 (once production starts again) .

Scott, John's maximum size for the A-1 is a wartime 46 (modern 44), due to scarcity of the hide, don't you take a larger jacket?

Hey Doc! Good to see you. Yes, I shrunk to a 48 this year. But John has made some in my range and we're emailing slowly towards what I hope will be something next year. I'll likely go A2 again as I love his jackets. I almost had one that fit that Saucer was selling. So close, yet so far. I hope to get one of John's jackets soon.

 

[deeb7]

Given how repros can draw the ire of purists, how do we justify custom jackets as opposed to off the rack sizes? Wouldn't it be more accurate to get a jacket as close as possible with numbered sizing and deal with it? This is not in any way meant to be sarcastic - in spite of my tendency to do such things. I know for me, I really have to get lucky for an off the rack to fit right, but it kinda seems like cheating on the authentic aspect to order a custom-fitting jacket.

If we're talking about the A-2, my opinion is that you find one of the patterns that fit your body shape, and that's it. Sleeve length alterations are fine, other than that you size up if you need to.

I realise this opinion isn't shared by all, but long sizes are just wrong.

 

[RCSignals]

If we're talking about the A-2, my opinion is that you find one of the patterns that fit your body shape, and that's it. Sleeve length alterations are fine, other than that you size up if you need to.

I realise this opinion isn't shared by all, but long sizes are just wrong.

That pretty much goes along with what I was getting at.

 

[dmar836]

Like David implied, there were some contracts with inset sleeves, larger bodies, etc. so the search for the "perfect" jacket is always just out of reach.
I have always wondered what I would have been issued in the day but many of us don't fit that mold as many of us with the modern "American body" would likely be rejected or relegated to other duties. Therefore, I prefer issued sizes that fit me best.
But I would buy whatever makes you want to wear it!

JMO,
Dave

 

[capt71]

Don't forget that in WW2 the guys were generally physically smaller than our generation now. That's why you see so many vintage jackets in the small to medium size range (32, 34, 38, etc). I don't know what larger sizes were available to them back then, but I don't think they had a huge choice when issued the jacket--it was probably more like: "what size Mac? Oh yeah?--well the closest I have is this--take it and get outta here!". I'm sure some may have had tailored jackets, but the majority wore what was available. My father's A-2 is size 42--he was 5'10" and was the tallest man on his B-24 crew! In comparison, I'm 6'1", take a size 44-long jacket and can't even begin to get into his A-2.

Bill

 

[deeb7]

Don't forget that in WW2 the guys were generally physically smaller than our generation now. That's why you see so many vintage jackets in the small to medium size range (32, 34, 38, etc).

That may be true, but the A-2 was made up to a size 54, and they're all the same design ... there were no long sizes. Once you add extra length, or otherwise change the proportions, it's no longer an A-2.

 

[Cobblers161]

Didn't the size vary a lot of the time? The dimensions on a say a size 44, as far as I am aware, often fluctuated not only in as much as they could be a size or so out but also individual dimensions could also be different between two jackets of the same tag size. If this is the case, and I have reached this conclusion by reading various posts on this 'ere site, then custom sizing isn't really out of kilter. So long as it's not too extreme.

I stand to be corrected if I'm spouting misinformation, again!

 

[ButteMT61]

Don't forget that in WW2 the guys were generally physically smaller than our generation now. That's why you see so many vintage jackets in the small to medium size range (32, 34, 38, etc).

That may be true, but the A-2 was made up to a size 54, and they're all the same design ... there were no long sizes. Once you add extra length, or otherwise change the proportions, it's no longer an A-2.

That's what I was getting at here. For the "it's not accurate" crowd, many (in reading their posts) have done exactly that to a military repro jacket, and yet claim it's the most accurate jacket around. Seems a tad poop-laiden to me

I take a long jacket being 6'-4", 225. My Aero Bronco A2 is a 52 - no alterations to length, etc. It feels the most "real" of my small number of jackets. I want to do a GW A2, and I'd like to stick to a stock size but I suppose it matters not. I'd love to see a vintage WWII A2 in a 48-52, but never have.

 

[Anonymous]

People today are straight up fatter than people back in the day- if not fatter than just bigger 'cause of all the growth hormones etc. I'm the same height as my dad who was in WW2 yet even at my skinniest I'm 20 lbs heavier- when I was his WW2 age I was 20 lbs. heavier than he. I agree that for the most accurate copt of a WW2 jacket one should order the closest stock size and get it made to original proportions- but all the repro jacket makers would be out of business if they didn't let their customers fiddle with jacket dimensions to get what they think is a good fit- a $1000 or so a pop the customer does have some say! I personally try to get jackets with the original proportions...

 

[Anonymous]

Butte:

it's the most accurate jacket around. Seems a tad poop-laiden to me

There are hundreds of small details which add up to "accuracy". The proportions of original jackets vary considerably even among jackets of the same contract and same size. I had a 42 bronco which fit me fine at 170 lbs. and tried on a 44 Bronco when I weighed the same which was too small. I do agree however that the proportions should be relatively similar to original jackets- no Tall or Long is going to look exactly right...

 

[Atticus]

I think a false premise may run throughout this discussion. As I read the original question, it essentially asks if we shouldn't only buy standard sized jackets...even if they are ill-fitting...because WWII aircrew only had access to standard sized jackets...which were often ill-fitting. While such a notion may hold true for re-enactors and some collectors, I think that very few people buy reproduction flight jackets because they actually want to look like WWII aircrew. I know I don't. I wear flight jackets because I like the way they look with jeans and T-shirts...or khakis and T-shirts. And because I just like flight jackets. I fully understand that at age fifty six, or at any other time during my fat life, could I have ever looked like a WWII aviator.

So...to echo what Jeff has already said...if I'm gonna pop a grand for a repro jacket, I’m really gonna want it to fit.

AF

 

[ButteMT61]

AF - I agree. My question was about those who seem to diss jackets on the premise they're "not accurate" while having custom jackets. To be truly accurate, they wouldn't be.
I like the look too - which of course is why I'm buying what some purists consider a lesser Aero. I like Aero's products and the prices I think are reasonable for what you get. I'm not stuck on accurate so much, but the more I've learned, the closer I'd like to be without getting all in a bunch over it. I dumped all of my original WWII-styled jackets like Avirex, Schott, etc. for that reason. But I stop short of counting stitches and worrying about the minute details that keep my jacket(s) from being the most accurate. And my size means I have to concede to custom most of the time.
The only accurate jackets to me are ones that are ~70 years old