Paypal dispute...advice?

[Hawkeye]

So roughly a month ago I sent a G-1 jacket to China by small packet international air, as that was the cheaper option of several that I quoted the buyer, and he agreed to that one, except theres no tracking number. Now this morning comes along and I find hes filed a dispute with Paypal for non-receipt of goods. I dont see how theres any possible way I can win this, seeing as theres no tracking number, and have only a basic post office receipt for the package, not to mention that paypal ALWAYS sides with a buyer. I cannot afford to refund this amount of cash, So, would it be possible to just close my account? Currently theres no money in the account, just the large negative dollar amount they are "holding" Its also attached to a credit card and bank account. What are my options here?

 

[jacketimp]

So roughly a month ago I sent a G-1 jacket to China by small packet international air, as that was the cheaper option of several that I quoted the buyer, and he agreed to that one, except theres no tracking number. Now this morning comes along and I find hes filed a dispute with Paypal for non-receipt of goods. I dont see how theres any possible way I can win this, seeing as theres no tracking number, and have only a basic post office receipt for the package, not to mention that paypal ALWAYS sides with a buyer. I cannot afford to refund this amount of cash, So, would it be possible to just close my account? Currently theres no money in the account, just the large negative dollar amount they are "holding" Its also attached to a credit card and bank account. What are my options here?

do you intened never to use ebay/paypal again?

 

[jacketimp]

hawkeye,

i think this is the second time this sceanrio has arisen?

if my memory serves me right i thought there was a similar scare in the early years when you first joined the forum.......luckily the item in question arrived.

i thought members adviced you to play safe by sending EMS.

as before perhaps the item will arrive safely albeit late.....

 

[havocpaul]

They might try and do a charge-back on your card or from your bank, this appears to be what eBay will also do from June so there's no escape. I personally wouldn't have sent anything to China other than by fully insured/tracking despite what the buyer might have agreed to, just too risky. I would however, take the stance with Paypal that as you have a receipt for the postage and (hopefully) a copy of the buyer's agreement to the cheaper option, then you have proof of despatch and are not liable for any unforeseen delays in transit; it may still turn up, be held in customs etc so the buyer should have contacted you prior to filing a dispute through PP. What's the buyer's feedback like, any signs he might be pulling a fast one?

 

[TankBuster]

Sorry to hear that Hawkeye. That's a tough one to win. Best of luck with it.
Here's another chance for me to say, if you're going to ship overseas, only use EMS.
Put it right in the auction, that way the buyer knows up front and has no right to argue.
I've never had a problem selling overseas. EMS is the only way to go.

 

[Hawkeye]

The fellows feedback is excellent, I dont think its a scam. Chances are its still in transit, this particular airmail shipping option takes 2 weeks for a package to reach England, its not inconceivable that it would take 4 or more to reach China. It was my mistake to offer the choice of a shipping option to China that was not tracked. I was in panic mode this morning, now Im just going to wait and see...

 

[jacketimp]

The fellows feedback is excellent, I dont think its a scam. Chances are its still in transit, this particular airmail shipping option takes 2 weeks for a package to reach England, its not inconceivable that it would take 4 or more to reach China. It was my mistake to offer the choice of a shipping option to China that was not tracked. I was in panic mode this morning, now Im just going to wait and see...

don't give choices......buyers will generally go for the cheapest option.......cheapest may not always be best....

keep us updated........

hope things work out well for you......and the current G1 on ebay......or has it sold......lost touch with that.

 

[Anonymous]

Hawkeye you are screwed once the buyer files a dispute with paypal they give you time to submit tracking info which you do not have or resolve the case with a refund.The next step it is review by a pay pal idiot and after 10 days the buyer wins the dispute .Remember paypal and ebay are having a big push to use them for your shipping and all paperwork to protect you goes through them .By always taking the buyers side they are forcing you to use there shipping system and make more money from you .All you can do is ask for a new credit card with a new number ,close your bank account or put a block on it and let them put you into collection .Sucks I know but buyers know they can get away with it at least twice before getting flagged .What ever you say or submit to pay pal will not make any diiference I have been there and I am a power seller with 4.8 dsr accross the board with a feed back of 99.8 % 10,000+ feedbacks.Pay pay view every case with out looking at anything else just the fact the seller did not get his merchandise and you cannot prove you sent it case closed .

All the best jeff

 

[jacketimp]

Hawkeye you are screwed once the buyer files a dispute with paypal they give you time to submit tracking info which you do not have or resolve the case with a refund.The next step it is review by a pay pal idiot and after 10 days the buyer wins the dispute .Remember paypal and ebay are having a big push to use them for your shipping and all paperwork to protect you goes through them .By always taking the buyers side they are forcing you to use there shipping system and make more money from you .All you can do is ask for a new credit card with a new number ,close your bank account or put a block on it and let them put you into collection .Sucks I know but buyers know they can get away with it at least twice before getting flagged .What ever you say or submit to pay pal will not make any diiference I have been there and I am a power seller with 4.8 dsr accross the board with a feed back of 99.8 % 10,000+ feedbacks.Pay pay view every case with out looking at anything else just the fact the seller did not get his merchandise and you cannot prove you sent it case closed .

All the best jeff

jeff,

can we close the current ebay/paypal account and then open a new account with a new ebay id.......with new bank/credit card?

nh

 

[ausreenactor]

Wow!!

Given you do not have a tracking number you are well and truly screwed. The negative balance will not allow you to use that account to make payments. You can receive them, but you do not access the funds, the negative balacne reduces accordingly. Paypal have you over a barrel. Had the saga at the end of last year. I did send it the recommended method, as per the Paypal User Agreement for Australia. It still took nearly 3 months for them to apply seller protection. Lost nearly AU$100 due to the exchange rate over that time. Sadly...you are at the whim of the buyer. Buyer would have great feedback if they fast pay and provide no hassles to the shipping date..Too late to withdraw/alter feedback after the fact.

Paypal are useless. The investigation staff took two months and did not locate the La Poste tracking number(different to the Australia Post Registered Number). They did decide that I had not provided sufficient evidence. I made known I had provided receipts 17 minutes after the dispute/claim were started. Paypal claimed the post office receipt obscured the shipping address in the scan, and did not verify that the item was addressed to the buyer. Agreed that fact in Scan B, Scan A was of the Registered Post international docket in whole. Had to lodge appeal that took 4 weeks. Had initiated legal action, using the User Agreement and the paper work as the proofs. Fortunately the initial work was all free. Emails flew as hasteners and the funds arrived, albeit $569.60 in Aussie dollars, when the disputed amount was in USD. More angry emails and the remainder arrived, at the current exchange rate.

Three months for a fully tracked, evidence provided, Paypal approved shipment. Not too flash. Buyer had his funds that day! Later verified item was "return to sender" the same day as the claim/dispute started?? 17 Nov 09. Buyer ID is sirimeo.

I use Registered Post International for all shipments on pricey items, or guys I deal with for the first time. I have sold jacket 4 & 5 to a Kirk C. Kirkman in the states. He is so reliable I ship before he pays...USPS, Royal Mail and Australia Post have never given me grief in over 9 years on eBay with over 1400 buys/sales. Including all the Western Union orders which used to be the norm in the early days...no more of course...I can use direct deposit in eBay Australia auctions, as the govt have stated the Paypal monopoly illegal here..Hit up your politicians!! Anti-competitive laws here prevent it...

Hawkeye....I think you are stuffed...and closing the account would have been the idea only before the claim started. Paypal are owed those funds, and they will hit you up with a collection agency. It would have been in one of the emails from Paypal stating they changed the agreement for you take a look when you can...

Good luck with it...maybe the seller will get the item and decide to give the money back..??

Couchy

 

[Hawkeye]

My only chance now really is try to placate the buyer as long as possible, give the package more time to arrive. It has not escalated into a full blown claim yet, so I do have some time...however it appears paypal has me over a barrel with my pants around my ankles. Thanks for the advice, i'll let you know how it goes.

 

[jacketimp]

My only chance now really is try to placate the buyer as long as possible, give the package more time to arrive. It has not escalated into a full blown claim yet, so I do have some time...

however it appears paypal has me over a barrel with my pants around my ankles.

use em pecards.....NOW!!


Thanks for the advice, i'll let you know how it goes.

and good luck........not with pecards.....the wonder lubricant

i mean good luck with your dispute....

 

[Hawkeye]

My only chance now really is try to placate the buyer as long as possible, give the package more time to arrive. It has not escalated into a full blown claim yet, so I do have some time...

however it appears paypal has me over a barrel with my pants around my ankles.

use em pecards.....NOW!!


Thanks for the advice, i'll let you know how it goes.

and good luck........not with pecards.....the wonder lubricant

i mean good luck with your dispute....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks for the good laugh

 

[jacketimp]

however it appears paypal has me over a barrel with my pants around my ankles.

use em pecards.....NOW!!


Thanks for the advice, i'll let you know how it goes.

and good luck........not with pecards.....the wonder lubricant

i mean good luck with your dispute....[/quote]



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks for the good laugh[/quote]

you're welcome............ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch

 

[asiamiles]

I have sold jacket 4 & 5 to a Kirk C. Kirkman in the states. He is so reliable I ship before he pays...

Never a wise move. I sold a lot of jacket catalogs (probably 4 or 5 batches over a year or two) to a guy in Canada. Very friendly and reliable and always sent payment in US$ cash. I was away so I thought it safe to ship his latest ones before payment arrived...it never did. I'm 99% sure he sent it and it got lost in the mail, but when it got to the point when it was obviously never going to turn up I asked him to resend payment...of course, he never responded. A lesson learned: Don't trust anyone when it comes to eBay.

 

[jacketimp]

I have sold jacket 4 & 5 to a Kirk C. Kirkman in the states. He is so reliable I ship before he pays...

Never a wise move. I sold a lot of jacket catalogs (probably 4 or 5 batches over a year or two) to a guy in Canada. Very friendly and reliable and always sent payment in US$ cash. I was away so I thought it safe to ship his latest ones before payment arrived...it never did. I'm 99% sure he sent it and it got lost in the mail, but when it got to the point when it was obviously never going to turn up I asked him to resend payment...of course, he never responded. A lesson learned: Don't trust anyone when it comes to eBay.

cash is a scary story...........was cash sent by registered mail?

 

[havocpaul]

can we close the current ebay/paypal account and then open a new account with a new ebay id.......with new bank/credit card?

nh[/quote]

I would think so, after all the unmentionable one from Spain seemed to change his regularly! You would need new bank/card details, e-mail, and ebay name, perhaps he could open it in his spouse's name?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Having recently gone through a sale where i was obliged to lodge a complaint, i would say just stick with it until the buyer escalates. Certainly do not back down and pay them until you have to. I was the buyer and i had to escalate simply because the time limits imposed by paypal had been reached. As it turns out, the package got returned to the seller apparently because i had refused to pay import duty (i had never seen the package or any letter demanding payment of duty). So, now the package has been sent back, with tracking this time, and i'm awaiting the letter from Parcel Force in order to pay the duty due. They seem to have an interesting idea of the value of the US dollar, so i guess i'll be disputing their charges …

The moral of all these stories, of course, is to never send a package abroad with a tracking number. That way you cover your ass.

bk

p.s. I have always imagined that this would be an excellent way to launder money. Pay with credit card; open dispute; refunded to paypal account; pay for something "sold" by your associate - a BIN perhaps; money comes directly from your paypal account to his; he downloads the cash to his bank account, and gives you the cash, which you then deposit to your bank account. All transactions are pseuodonymous, naturally. Not diffuclt to effect. I susect this is going on quite bit right now. Obviously with a few more steps to cover the trail, but the system is so open to abuse that i have difficulty imagining that it is not being abused.

 

[John Lever]

Yes, they substitute Pounds for Dollars !

 

[jacketimp]

parcel force just collects on behalf of C&E.......

they have their own rate of exchange (FOREX).....