Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
No they did not.
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Original Patched Monarch A-2 Coming Soon
- Thread starter Stony
- Start date
Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
'll take 1700. cdn dollars
Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
not so far
Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
just have to get a paypal account
EmergencyIan
Active Member
Maybe the lesson in all of this is not to contact a veteran regarding the jacket that they won the war in unless your prepared to give/gift it to them. If not, which is certainly your prerogative, don’t reach out to them in regard to something which, at this point, must hold, at least, some sentimental value. Of course, the overwhelming majority of these veterans have no idea that these jackets are worth so much in the open market and when hit with a price of over a thousand dollars to get the jacket back, they’re taken aback and likely feel insulted.
- Ian
- Ian
Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
I would not give a second for regrets.
Like you said he turned the jacket in after the war means back then it was of no value for him.
Now off course it maybe would be a nice reminder about his past. But like was also already said: even if he would have kept it more than 70 years who knows whether it would still exist.
You paid for it - it‘s yours ...
Just my 2 cents
Like you said he turned the jacket in after the war means back then it was of no value for him.
Now off course it maybe would be a nice reminder about his past. But like was also already said: even if he would have kept it more than 70 years who knows whether it would still exist.
You paid for it - it‘s yours ...
Just my 2 cents
Agree with all that’s been said. One could understand his desire for it and it’s too bad he didn’t understand the value we collectors put on the old junk that they gave back, sold, tossed out, whatever, and now want back. I think it’s honorable that you even offered it to him at cost and really wanted to meet and talk with him. IMO, his attitude, if he was actually angry or expecting, is kind of a negative reflection on the story. I agree with your sentiment that he paid a lot but that’s not very greatest generation-ish.
Dave
Dave
Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
This is a tough one. In my mind he deserves to get his jacket back. However, it sounds like he had angry knee jerk reaction due to the emotions attached to the jacket and his past.
This is a sad thing to hear.
I agree that most people can't afford to just throw away $1000 + but I would try to find a way to recover the funds and return the jacket.
A "Go Fund Me" or similar funding avenue may work. I think a lot of people would donate to it if it was presented well. I certainly would.
Regards,
Jay
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
i have run into all sorts of "issues" with purchasing original a-2s. sometimes i have found myself in a family dynamics sandwich with no way out. it is yours, and you did the right thing by offering it at your cost. at this point, i agree with thomas, "you paid for it, its yours". you can not undo the past.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Jay raises an interesting point regarding getting his jacket back by going out on the web and trying various funding mechanisms to recoup the personal funds you expended when you purchased the jacket however , I wonder why his immediate family (assuming that he has one) wouldn’t promote something like this . This is where I see things a little differently. Should it be my responsibility as a complete stranger who just happened upon this jacket to take a heavy financial loss to see that the fellow gets his jacket or should the family make an effort to collectively raise the funds to get his jacket back. I sort of think that if it were my relative or dad that I would make that effort rather than expecting a stranger to do that . I think we are letting the family off a little too easily in this situation.
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Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
I don't think any financial loss is necessary. A funding project will just recoup the funds. If it is not successful, there is no loss with most funding programs. The buyer keeps the jacket and the guy is out of luck. I think it would be successful though. It is not a huge amount to raise and a good cause. It would be easy to set up.
We can't speculate about his family (if he has one). They were not contacted. He may be so worked up as well that he can't convey the facts to them.
I won't tell anyone what they should do in a situation like this. I offer an option that I feel is the right thing to do in my eyes. It would be heart warming to see this guy reunited with his jacket. If that is your intention, this is an avenue to do it. If not, enjoy the jacket. It is a nice one.
Best Regards,
Jay
The word “deserves” is a real point of contention for me. It would be great if he had it for whatever joy it would bring to him but this has made me think it out a bit. If at any point I can track down my grandfather’s Durant roadster or other relatives military items or any other fond monumental possession from my families past that we have talked about so much and regret losing and then expect public support for it to be returned to us it would not be so great - at a societal level. Appreciation for his sacrifice aside, many humans struggle with their own brand of suffering and I’m not comfortable with defining appropriate and adequate repayment of it.
I would also say it’s a shame for us to add even a tittle of guilt to Spitfireace’s ownership of this jacket. I’m not trying to start contention but thats what this does. I actually got a little uncomfortable for him(sorry to virtue signal) as another member with named originals. This could start to sound as if someone did open a Gofundme account that Spitfireace would be an ass to not oblige giving it up. The value is greater than money for more than just the original vet. This sound like a great suggestion (albeit with another persons possessions) but it is rightfully his property. Think about it - there are plenty of named items for sale. Why don’t we suggest others to purchase them with the intent of tracking the vet or family down and returning it. Or better yet one of us do it first before assuming it should be done at all.
I know I’m overreacting here but I suppose all of our original jackets could be awaiting for the families of the original owners to make a claim. Should we return stolen war booty? Maybe. That’s another discussion. But these artifacts were never stolen from the original owners. All antiques were once someone else’s property and some have seen worse horror.
Again, appreciation for his sacrifice, to me, would not be adequately nor best expressed with his old jacket.
JMO,
Dave
“Heartwarming” is just it. Reality is that I could likely find possessions in your care that I might feel you should offer to someone who could appreciate it or even might need it more. Not trying to draw you out but any of us could do that with anyone else’s property here but that’s a heck of a way to think.
EmergencyIan
Active Member
As I said, if you are not prepared to give/gift the jacket or other item to the veteran, just don't contact them. It's that simple. You own it, now, so that's your prerogative not to initiate contact.
However keep in perspective that this man was 21 years old when the war ended. How much insight did you have at 21? How would you feel if some stranger contacted you to inform you that he had your old jacket, just to, ultimately, offer it to you for $1700 dollars?
The lesson is to do some forward thinking before you make contact. The veteran is likely going to want the item back, whatever it is. If you are not prepared to give it back, don't make contact.
- Ian
However keep in perspective that this man was 21 years old when the war ended. How much insight did you have at 21? How would you feel if some stranger contacted you to inform you that he had your old jacket, just to, ultimately, offer it to you for $1700 dollars?
The lesson is to do some forward thinking before you make contact. The veteran is likely going to want the item back, whatever it is. If you are not prepared to give it back, don't make contact.
- Ian
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Skyhawk
Well-Known Member
You make good points Dave. Spitfireace, offered to sell it for $1,700 CDN so I just chimed in with an alternative because he had said that he felt a little bad about it. I am not trying to guilt anyone.
I am not suggesting that we all try to track down whoever owned our collectables. In this case the guy was contacted and so the situation happened. Then the question is how do you react in a situation like this.
If the owner is willing to sell the jacket for that, I am sure it would be achievable through funding.
Even better would be to do kickstarter, promote it, and get 300% of the funding goal reached.
The Vet gets the jacket, you get a $2000 finders fee.
I am not suggesting that we all try to track down whoever owned our collectables. In this case the guy was contacted and so the situation happened. Then the question is how do you react in a situation like this.
If the owner is willing to sell the jacket for that, I am sure it would be achievable through funding.
Even better would be to do kickstarter, promote it, and get 300% of the funding goal reached.
The Vet gets the jacket, you get a $2000 finders fee.
Yeah, not wanting to dig at anyone, Jay. It's a great sentiment but a slippery slope IMO. I'd say Ian has the wisest advice though an unfortunate admission. I have seen and heard of situations where original owners gladly told what they could remember when asked about their item. I have not done it - tried it once but was unable to make contact. It's uncomfortable for sure. I'd guess most vets really don't want their jackets or other items back. At older ages one's priorities change. The older I get the more things come to me and go from me at far less than market price based on other considerations - like true friendship, appreciation, and usefulness to another well-intentioned person rather than flipping something that's currently trending for profit. In the end its all just stuff that will burn!
Dave
Dave
Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
I agree with Dave, it is a slippery slope. In all honesty I'm sure it's not a priority in this vet or any vets life to get items back that they gave up 73 years ago. I'd like my old baseball glove back from when I was a kid, but it is not in the forefront of my mind. Life has moved on. This was ten or more years ago when I contacted him, and yes, I knew the risks of doing it. Could go one way or the other, and did both in our short conversation. Initially he was surprised and curious about it then turned angry when I guess he thought I was trying to profit from him. But as said, these vets don't know what the monetary collector value of these old jackets are now, and to them they are just that, old jackets.
EmergencyIan
Active Member
Let's not attempt to rationalize this particular situation by intimating that this veteran turned out to be an angry old man and, anyhow, it's just an old jacket to him. That's nonsense.
Try to get inside the veterans head for a moment, if you will. If he's 94, now, he was about 84 when you called/phoned him, out of the blue. He was quite elderly, already. You told him that you have his flight jacket and that it's terrific or something along those lines. Great. But, think about what this guy has left, at this point in time, generally speaking...I'm not talking about what he has left from WWII. Is he facing one of more illnesses. Is his wife...is she even still alive? If he has children, are they close to him? How many of his peers are still alive? What's his financial situation? Can he afford to eat properly or does Meals-On-Wheels provide him with his one good meal per day?
So, he gets a phone call from someone that he doesn't know from Adam who goes on to tell him that he now owns his flight jacket, then goes on to tell him how wonderful it is. Yes, he turned it in at the end of the war, when he was 21, as he was directed to do. He followed orders. Some veterans took their flight jackets home because not everyone followed orders. Then, interested and possibly excited, he asks for the jacket back. The stranger on the other end of the phone says: sure you can have it back for $1700. The price may as well be $50,000. Even if the guy has $1700 in savings, he most likely can't justify spending $1700 on a jacket. Even if he already knows what the jacket is worth on the collectors market or is willing to be educated to what their current value is, it's irrelevant. He can't afford it and it probably feels like this guy, who called him, is out to make money off of him. Unfortunately, this happens to the elderly, in the United States, all too regularly, so the veteran is already on guard. The elderly are prey for scam artists (not that I think Spitfire is anything of the sort).
You've got to put yourself in the veterans mind, at this point in time, in this sort of situation. Of course, he's going to want his jacket back and, of course, he's not going to want to or be able to pay current market value for it. So, the way it played out is anything but surprising or the veterans fault...not his fault, all day long.
On top of that, if a veteran is deceased, and you contact his family with this same situation, expect them to want the jacket or other item back. It's seems like a natural instinct. It's nothing surprising.
As I've said before, if you aren't willing to donate the item to the veteran or their family, don't make contact. But, if you do, and you're not willing, don't be surprised when the situation goes sideways, right or wrong (on their part). However, don't make the veteran out to be the "bad guy" in this scenario. That's wrong.
- Ian
Try to get inside the veterans head for a moment, if you will. If he's 94, now, he was about 84 when you called/phoned him, out of the blue. He was quite elderly, already. You told him that you have his flight jacket and that it's terrific or something along those lines. Great. But, think about what this guy has left, at this point in time, generally speaking...I'm not talking about what he has left from WWII. Is he facing one of more illnesses. Is his wife...is she even still alive? If he has children, are they close to him? How many of his peers are still alive? What's his financial situation? Can he afford to eat properly or does Meals-On-Wheels provide him with his one good meal per day?
So, he gets a phone call from someone that he doesn't know from Adam who goes on to tell him that he now owns his flight jacket, then goes on to tell him how wonderful it is. Yes, he turned it in at the end of the war, when he was 21, as he was directed to do. He followed orders. Some veterans took their flight jackets home because not everyone followed orders. Then, interested and possibly excited, he asks for the jacket back. The stranger on the other end of the phone says: sure you can have it back for $1700. The price may as well be $50,000. Even if the guy has $1700 in savings, he most likely can't justify spending $1700 on a jacket. Even if he already knows what the jacket is worth on the collectors market or is willing to be educated to what their current value is, it's irrelevant. He can't afford it and it probably feels like this guy, who called him, is out to make money off of him. Unfortunately, this happens to the elderly, in the United States, all too regularly, so the veteran is already on guard. The elderly are prey for scam artists (not that I think Spitfire is anything of the sort).
You've got to put yourself in the veterans mind, at this point in time, in this sort of situation. Of course, he's going to want his jacket back and, of course, he's not going to want to or be able to pay current market value for it. So, the way it played out is anything but surprising or the veterans fault...not his fault, all day long.
On top of that, if a veteran is deceased, and you contact his family with this same situation, expect them to want the jacket or other item back. It's seems like a natural instinct. It's nothing surprising.
As I've said before, if you aren't willing to donate the item to the veteran or their family, don't make contact. But, if you do, and you're not willing, don't be surprised when the situation goes sideways, right or wrong (on their part). However, don't make the veteran out to be the "bad guy" in this scenario. That's wrong.
- Ian
