MaydayWei
Well-Known Member
Hello everyone,
In light of the recent discussion on the pros and cons of original jackets vs. reproductions I thought I would create a new thread so as to not hijack @Lorenzol's sale thread.
If you're a size 40 please go look at his 7823D in near-mint condition. It is going for an absolute song.
General Summary:
Pros of an Original
- History
- 100% Accuracy
- Vintage Materials
- Economical (Can be found at a fraction of the price of a Repro)
Cons of an Original
- Scarcity (Hard to find in excellent, or NOS condition; often beat to hell)
- Potentially unforeseen maintenance/refurbishment costs
- Lack of expertise to clean and care for them
- Fit (One-fit-for all, if the fit ain't your taste, too bad)
Pros of a Repro
- Quick access (with exceptions, Re the wait times for Goodwears, BKs, Platons)
-Potential customisations for fit (i.e. custom process at 5*, length modifications (BK, Aero etc.))
- Brand new
- Clean
- Warranty (I think?)
Cons of a Repro
- Never 100% accurate (Either because of inability or the manufacturer taking creative liberties (with exceptions))
- Expensive
- Mass-produced, commercial (not as unique as vintage)
Without going too in depth, I think (for myself, at least) the biggest issue I have with a repro is that most but not all are unfaithful reproductions. (My thoughts below exclude companies such as Goodwear Leather)
In my limited experience, I have come to realise that even the most technically faithful reproductions are not literal reproductions.
3 things stick out: material, method, sentiment.
[1] Material
Plain and simple, though a RM's G-1 may be made of 100% USN spec Goatskin, it literally cannot ever be the exact type of USN Goatskin used in the past. This is evidence by the fact that certain companies offer vintage leathers or vintage mouton furs. It is indicative that even though a jacket may on paper be 100% technically accurate in material; it may not be literally accurate in material.
[2] Method
With regard to method, again (with exceptions), companies like Bronson, RM, or Buzz tend to deconstruct jackets in order to infer and reverse engineer their methods for construction. Again, they may well be technically 100% accurate (correct stitching method etc.) but there's simply no way to travel back in time (unless you are Jorge) to see the exact methods they used back then. The result is, a technically correct method, but not a literally original or faithful one.
[3] Sentiment
Finally, we have sentiment. This is most obviously demonstrated with mouton collars; namely, those of RM and ELC. It has often been said that the mouton on an ELC is a caricature; and so are the RMs! The fact that ELC or RM moutons are dyed to have a 'chicken nugget' golden tinge (despite being brand new) creates an artificial or contrived look. It is odd simply because it is inorganic. In doing so, you are no longer trying to literally re-create the originals; but rather trying to emulate the spirit of a 'worn-jacket' in a new one. I would argue that if fails to do so, and really, the only way to capture that spirit would be to faithfully and literally reproduce the jacket and to let it patina and tarnish organically over time.
I understand that my criticisms go to the unavoidable nature of a reproduction, and are... well... unavoidable lol.
Just some thoughts on it. I would love to hear what you all think.
@Brettafett if you would copy what you said on Lorenzol's thread here, I would appreciate it.
In light of the recent discussion on the pros and cons of original jackets vs. reproductions I thought I would create a new thread so as to not hijack @Lorenzol's sale thread.
If you're a size 40 please go look at his 7823D in near-mint condition. It is going for an absolute song.
General Summary:
Pros of an Original
- History
- 100% Accuracy
- Vintage Materials
- Economical (Can be found at a fraction of the price of a Repro)
Cons of an Original
- Scarcity (Hard to find in excellent, or NOS condition; often beat to hell)
- Potentially unforeseen maintenance/refurbishment costs
- Lack of expertise to clean and care for them
- Fit (One-fit-for all, if the fit ain't your taste, too bad)
Pros of a Repro
- Quick access (with exceptions, Re the wait times for Goodwears, BKs, Platons)
-Potential customisations for fit (i.e. custom process at 5*, length modifications (BK, Aero etc.))
- Brand new
- Clean
- Warranty (I think?)
Cons of a Repro
- Never 100% accurate (Either because of inability or the manufacturer taking creative liberties (with exceptions))
- Expensive
- Mass-produced, commercial (not as unique as vintage)
Without going too in depth, I think (for myself, at least) the biggest issue I have with a repro is that most but not all are unfaithful reproductions. (My thoughts below exclude companies such as Goodwear Leather)
In my limited experience, I have come to realise that even the most technically faithful reproductions are not literal reproductions.
3 things stick out: material, method, sentiment.
[1] Material
Plain and simple, though a RM's G-1 may be made of 100% USN spec Goatskin, it literally cannot ever be the exact type of USN Goatskin used in the past. This is evidence by the fact that certain companies offer vintage leathers or vintage mouton furs. It is indicative that even though a jacket may on paper be 100% technically accurate in material; it may not be literally accurate in material.
[2] Method
With regard to method, again (with exceptions), companies like Bronson, RM, or Buzz tend to deconstruct jackets in order to infer and reverse engineer their methods for construction. Again, they may well be technically 100% accurate (correct stitching method etc.) but there's simply no way to travel back in time (unless you are Jorge) to see the exact methods they used back then. The result is, a technically correct method, but not a literally original or faithful one.
[3] Sentiment
Finally, we have sentiment. This is most obviously demonstrated with mouton collars; namely, those of RM and ELC. It has often been said that the mouton on an ELC is a caricature; and so are the RMs! The fact that ELC or RM moutons are dyed to have a 'chicken nugget' golden tinge (despite being brand new) creates an artificial or contrived look. It is odd simply because it is inorganic. In doing so, you are no longer trying to literally re-create the originals; but rather trying to emulate the spirit of a 'worn-jacket' in a new one. I would argue that if fails to do so, and really, the only way to capture that spirit would be to faithfully and literally reproduce the jacket and to let it patina and tarnish organically over time.
I understand that my criticisms go to the unavoidable nature of a reproduction, and are... well... unavoidable lol.
Just some thoughts on it. I would love to hear what you all think.
@Brettafett if you would copy what you said on Lorenzol's thread here, I would appreciate it.