New Product - ELC Irvin 1944 pattern

[Cliff]

Some thing tells me that Gary monitors this 'ole forum more than we give him credit for. To me that was an excellent response to John's email and shows that at least he is in touch with his minority market (us) but is concious of where he can and needs to sell his products to the majority of his buyers. Nice to know we are not forgotten and I sense we now have a limited channel in which to order jackets to our particular specifications to feed our strange "jacket head" requirements.
(I do like the term "jacket head") !!!!

cheers
Cliff

 

[asiamiles]

Yes, it's good to hear from the horse's mouth the reasons behind ELC's initial decision. As guessed they are partly market driven, but also a result of customer concern - it's not surprising to me that the TW jackets are more popular than new looking ones, but interesting that in this case that the materials used for the jacket make it feel less "wearable" in new condition, and presumably Gary was worried that the initial reaction of someone trying on the jacket might not be so positive. Even us "jacket heads" can react this way; how many times have we heard the likes of "those Buzz A-2's look and feel so stiff and shiny in the shop."

 

[Roughwear]

I'm sure Gary does from time to time follow our posts to assess our reaction to his new products. Such feedback is of course essential to improve a product even further.

 

[John Lever]

I have samples of the TW and NTW. The time worn surface feels like it's been abraded with Scotchbrite or that nylon wire wool abrasive stuff. As a result it has quite high friction levels and feels rough. The NTW has some slight shine and has masses of wrinkles and surface character. I prefer it.
The wool is outrageous. It is over 1 1/2 inches long but very curly. The down side is that when parted the fleece shows though to the skin beneath, so that may be an issue on the cuffs and waist.
I wonder what a jacket with a shaggy collar would look like, too much ?

 

[asiamiles]

I have samples of the TW and NTW. The time worn surface feels like it's been abraded with Scotchbrite or that nylon wire wool abrasive stuff. As a result it has quite high friction levels and feels rough. The NTW has some slight shine and has masses of wrinkles and surface character. I prefer it.
The wool is outrageous. It is over 1 1/2 inches long but very curly. The down side is that when parted the fleece shows though to the skin beneath, so that may be an issue on the cuffs and waist.
I wonder what a jacket with a shaggy collar would look like, too much ?

Maybe too hippie-ish?

While I think we are attracted to this jacket because it represents something a bit different, we should bear in mind that this kind of sheepskin was not considered ideal for making Irvins and was only used due to shortages in the better stuff.

 

[Andrew]

John, I just don't think they were ever made that way- at least i've never seen one nor pictures of one. All the shaggy late Wars i've had had short fleece collars.

A couple of suggestions as to why not- I find the longer wool too itchy and I suspect it wasn't the neat appearance the Military would have wanted. Also the thicker shorter fleece wears better whilst the shaggier stuff has a tendancy to thin out quicker over time- especially in a high wear location such as the collar.

 

[Tim P]

John your quest for shaggy has been long and arduous for you. Kudos for you for independantly sourcing fleeces and all the stuff you have done. Having come this far I think you need to be absolutely uncompromising about what you want.
That said, I think that a less shaggy collar would be easier on the neck frankly and this may well have been recognised during manufacture of originals however much they compromised on the number and quality of body panels.
but He who pays the piper calls the tune, with enough of your cash going Gary's way, maybe a cheeky little furry collar could be worked into your spec as a favour. The only issue with that is that they run the risk of losing sales from people who see your jacket, identify it correctly and don't dig the look of it. (not a biggy in my opinion btw)

 

[Tim P]

bear in mind that the wrong bit of curly on the wrong part of the collar would tickle and rub like a beeatch. on the 'bend' of the collar the skin would show through.

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew and Tim you have made sensible observations about the use of shaggy fleece on the collar and cuffs. Most late war Irvins that were made of shaggy fleece has close pile cuffs as well as collars. I notice that the new ELC jacket has shaggy cuffs. They will wear quickly IMO and just look odd.

 

[John Lever]

All good observations.

 

[Tim P]

I like it when the collar and cuffs match :evil:





sorry..

Had to.

 

[Roughwear]

I agree Tim and this was a sign of quality. The ELC shaggy cuffs may be itchy on the wrists/upper hands. If I owned this jacket I would replace the cuffs with the correct close pile fleece and add a Dot puller, but this is just my opinion. I'm not a great fan of the TW finish as it does not fully replicate a worn Irvin.

 

[asiamiles]

Andrew and Tim you have made sensible observations about the use of shaggy fleece on the collar and cuffs. Most late war Irvins that were made of shaggy fleece has close pile cuffs as well as collars. I notice that the new ELC jacket has shaggy cuffs. They will wear quickly IMO and just look odd.

So on originals, the panels to which the sleeve zips are sewn would be of shorter fleece while the rest of the arm would be longer fleece?

 

[Tim P]

Not sure but it makes sense, zips and hair dont mix in my experience.

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew and Tim you have made sensible observations about the use of shaggy fleece on the collar and cuffs. Most late war Irvins that were made of shaggy fleece has close pile cuffs as well as collars. I notice that the new ELC jacket has shaggy cuffs. They will wear quickly IMO and just look odd.

So on originals, the panels to which the sleeve zips are sewn would be of shorter fleece while the rest of the arm would be longer fleece?

This is true for most mid to later war jackets which had the shell made from shaggy fleece. A strip of close pile fleece was sewn on to each sleeve to form the cuff and a longer strip was sewn on to the body of the jacket to form the hem. Early war jackets, which were made of closer pile fleece did not have these additions. From 1941 Wareings and DGL for example generally used close pile fleece for the cuffs, hem and collar.

 

[m444uk]

This ones got a shaggy collar and wind flap. Difficult to say if it wears quicker or not.
The old Swedish army canvas winter coats had long shaggy fleece inside. It was a cheaper
material to source.

 

[Roughwear]

Yes, this black fleece Irvin is ultra rare and dates from 1941-2. Where did you get the pictures from as it has been in my collection for a couple of years now?

 

[ausreenactor]

Yes, this black fleece Irvin is ultra rare and dates from 1941-2. Where did you get the pictures from as it has been in my collection for a couple of years now?

Andrew...remember to lock the back door!!

 

[Roughwear]

My black flleece jacket has close pile fleece on the cuffs and hem but the collar is made from longer fleece similar to the body.

 

[Cliff]

This is the ELC advert from their 1990 brochure pack for their Irvin. I would be happy if they just made this again. Fortunately John just sold me a 20 year old one of these and its perfect for me.

If only you could still get a new one for £357.50p

Cheers

Cliff