Bargain painted A-2.

[Andrew]

Someone got a bargain with this one (unless i'm missing something). I would have loved to have had this in my collection (woulda been my second "Rat" jacket but I forgot all about it). That's a lot of art for not much money. Anyone here buy it?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... K:MEWAX:IT

 

[Andrew]

Now i'm really baffled. Am I missing something that's obvious? Motelbuyer relisted it as I assumed the sale went west and I find myself the highest bidder this time around, and it's gone for even less again. I can see the damage and that's not an issue to me but have I just won a bargain or a problem?

I've asked MB why it was back up for sale just now, should've done it before but I really didn't think i'd have a snowflakes chance so I didn't bother...

Opinions please?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... MEWNX%3AIT

 

[TankBuster]

Andrew,

I think you did very well. It honestly probably didn't get as much attention due to the fact it is not named, and there is no squadron patch. That being said, I think you got it for 300-500 under what I think it really should have fetched. When items are relisted, they never seem to do very well the 2nd time around for some reason.
The paint looks WW2 period to me. Send me a PM once you get it, and I'll be more than happy to walk you thru a couple things to make sure it's OK.

 

[asiamiles]

I'm not big on painted jackets, so it seems a lot to pay to me for jacket in lesser condition; the leather might be rotted and it's surely unwearble and needs some money and attention just to make it a good display piece...which is presumably what you bought the jacket for?

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Love the art work. Give us a full review once you get it.

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for the feedback chaps, and yes Miles the artwork is the attraction for me and as long as it's not rotting or falling to bits I'll be happy. I felt it would go for more, and despite the fact it's not my main theatre of interest if I apply some creative collecting logic to it it will sit very nicely alongside my "Rat Poison" 8thAF jacket- even the colours are similar.

Ill certainly post some shots and Jeff I'll email you a few more.

At any rate it'll give me something to research. Now I'll need to find a home for my beautiful original sz44 21996...

 

[Silver Surfer]

ive done some biz with mb, and found that he is a straight shooter. he generally lists his jacs clearly, and adds lots of pix. because most of his a-2s are usually dry, or dried out [not to be confused with rot], i assume he is a storage facility raider. aside from the obvious holes, and wear areas, i would guess that some pecards will soften the hides up, and make the jac showable. wearer-not. from the pix in the listing, my gut feeling is that the paint is either original, or applied soon there after wwll. usually a black light will date the paint.....though even on original wwll paint work, there may be a glow, as often jacs were touched up. sometimes, again, and again. not at all unusual. bottom line: nice jac, nice price.

 

[philip.ed]

As long as you are happy with the item, then whatever price you paid is justified

 

[bazelot]

It looks like apretty good deal to me at the going rates of painted A-2s. I really wonder how this guy gets all those A-2s. He lists 2-3 a week!!!

 

[Peter Graham]

This guy has been selling jackets for a long time. He always lists them in the same way and appears honest. The biggie for me, as a buyer, is the lack of label. What is it ? I know that's not important to Andrew, bless him. Who made the jacket ?

 

[Andrew]

... I know that's not important to Andrew, bless him. Who made the jacket ?

you know me pretty well Pete, it certainly is secondary for me when it's painted, but it'd still be good to ID it. I'm sure someone will be able to.

I'm much more interested in the crew and plane. The only reference I've found to Shack Rats is a B-17 that was lost on its 24th mission- this ones got 25 tallied. Perhaps there were others.

 

[Chris217]

Andrew I found this little bit of information on Shack Rats:

Shack Rats, 568th BS, 390th BG. B-17G-Vega serial # 297863. A/c letter S.

Accepted by USAAF 20 Mar 44. Tulsa Mod Center 20 Mar 44. Kearney 13 May 44. Grenier 24 May 44. 8th AF 25 May 44. MIA Merseburg 29 Jul 44. Hit by flak, two engines out. Crashed at Bad Bibra. Norby KIA, rest POW.

 

[bombs away]

Andrew,

Great catch ! It's good to know it's in your hands.
Congrats

I wanted to bid on this beauty but finally didn't as I thought it would go much more higher. Lucky guy !

Tim

 

[Andrew]

Chris, that info is gold, thanks so much for finding that. It's a great start and hopefully it'll lead me to a lot of other fascinating stuff- and it might be all I end up with too! This is what I love about this hobby, it can take you places you never expected.

Tim, I did think that it's the sort of thing you might like, even despite the damage. As i'm only it's temporary caretaker I shall automatically put you in first place should I decide to part with it

 

[bombs away]

Andrew,

Here is the first page of the Missing Air Crew Report :

Everything matches with what Chris said.

The aircraft didn't fly for too long, so it's really possible that this crew has all or much of its flights in the "shak rats".
Your jacket surely belonged to one of the 5 NCOs in this MACR.
Take your time to look very closely to the lining, it's quite common to find faint name or army serial number hand written.
I have already bought a jacket from this seller, he said there was no name inside but I've found one looking closely.

Tim

(and thanks, if one day you think about selling it, I'll be there )

 

[TankBuster]

If it is indeed a 390th Bomb Group jacket, I have their large group history book that I could dig through.

I know they keep many records and photographs at their musuem. It may be worth sending them some photos of the jacket and any info you have. I've heard they are very helpful.

http://www.390th.org/

 

[TankBuster]

Just for fun, some 390th footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61T6cIlJ ... grec_index

 

[Chris217]

Its also very possible the assigned crew of Shack Rats didn't fly that certain mission that day. It could be that another crew who ship was under repair etc. was assigned to fly Shack Rats that day and unfortunately went down with that particular ship. I know in researching my grandfathers various missions his crew seems to have flown in at least 4 or 5 different B-17s during his tour.

 

[Andrew]

Wow, this is great stuff, thanks guys. Tim, I am also hoping there's some little clue inside it as i've also found names on items after i've received them. From the crew list I see that Vincent Fugarazzo was on board. I found this article on him written in '09 and it has the reporters email address but I was confused by the mission numbers. That might be worth following up too and hopefully he's still going to parties.... There's also quite a few other entries of him doing public speaking and it also gives his address and number. A lot of things come to mind and i'll have to try to make some contact. I love piecing stuff like this together.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/70438697.html

 

[TankBuster]

I searched my 390th book hoping to find a photo of Shack Rats. While unsuccessful, I did get a summary of the mission on which they were brought down:

390th Bomb Group Mission #159 July 29th 1944 Merseburg Germany

Target: Merseburg Leuna Plant

At this time in the war, the Merseburg plant was the number one oil target, and the number one German target for the 8th AAF.

"1,228 planes were dispersed from various bomb groups to bomb the plant. Twenty planes from the 390th A Group led the wing. The Germans put up a terrific flak concentration. 2 planes were lost to the barrage. Another 20 planes from 390th B Group dropped on PFF markings into the target area.
Besides deadly flak, the Luftwaffe put up its largest challenge in weeks. After bombs away, 2 waves of German fighters totaling 40 attacked the various formations."

It looks like your plane was part of the 390th A group, and was one of the two brought down by flak. According to the mission report, no planes in B Group were brought down despite the large fighter opposition.