ATC Patch on my ELC RW 1401

[herk115]

Folks, I just can't seem to stand an A-2 without a patch, so I purchased one of the "Naked Lady" Air Transport Command patches for wear on my ELC RW. The patch itself is fascinating. Though not made in wartime, it was made by RKO studios in Hollywood ca. 1955, languished in a prop house for decades, then wound up in the hands of a collector who sold it to me on Ebay last week. RKO made numerous repro WWII A-2 patches during that same period, for I have purchased several of them from the same vendor in the last few years.

The problem is, this being the "Naked Lady" version, I've got to be careful where I wear it. I live in California and if I lived in Los Angeles of San Francisco I would have no problem about wearing this patch any time, anywhere. Unfortunately I live in Bakersfield, which, to engage in understatement, is a conservative, redneck, almost puritanical town. I'm not kidding when I say I could be arrested for wearing this patch here. So after a few day's though, I've come up with the following: if outdoors in a public place, I will wear this jacket and patch where ever and whenever I please. If indoors on private property (i.e. a restaurant) and not in my own house, I will remove the jacket so as to respect the feelings of others about public nudity, even public nudity crudely drawn on a piece of cloth. But under no circumstances will I censor or deface this patch by putting a bathing suit on the naked lady. Remember, this possibility of forced censorship or even arrest exists here in the USA, "land of the free."

So anyway, I decided to put it to the test. I wore the jacket to a take-out restaurant tonight. I peered inside before entering to make sure a male clerk was on duty, then strode in confidently wearing the patch. The clerk handled my order and took no notice while engaging in polite banter (he's a young guy about to head off for U.S. Marine Corps boot camp). As I waited for my order, I was suddenly surrounded by four or five ladies. Most took no notice, but a mother with her daughter turned around to look at me, did a double take, looked back at the patch, glared at me, then whispered something to her daughter (maybe ten or eleven years old), and the daughter turned around and looked at the patch! Okay, Mom, if the patch is so obscene and harmful to our puritanical society, why did you tell your sensitive young child to turn around and look at it? Nothing came of it, I took my order, and left.

My point: have any of you ever experienced problems wearing your A-2s in public with risque patches or nose art, and if so, how did you handle it? To see the jacket and patch as I wore it tonight, go here: http://www.jetgouge.com/A-2%20Jackets.html

Cheers,

Larry

 

[dmar836]

Why I don't do carry out!

Seriously, there are worse things on T-shirts. I hardly think the cops will tackle you once outside the restaurant but look first!

Wear it.............just maybe not to church.

Dave

 

[a2jacketpatches]

When I make them in leather, I never put nipps. I think and have been told it's a good idea.

 

[Persimmon]

Larry,

Thanks for posting. Whilst I can understand both sides of this discussion I guess its up to you to wear it when you want to and not where it perhaps when it should just be left folded over your arm - (eg) Church !!

However being honest I think the patch is poor in design and quality and to me is close to being unwearable and does not compliment your A2.

We all, thankfully, have different tastes so my taste can be equally way off the mark but if I was patching the jacket I would put on a stronger better designed more appropriate patch.

Good job with the Mona Lisa collar.

 

[dujardin]

from Belgium

wearing my jacket bring no problem about the ''nudity'' of the pin-up i have on my back

but well because my jacket is pro-american....
there are many places where it's better i don't walk with my jacket

i will not start a discussion about politic or religion, but that's why i avoid to wear my jacket in public place.
i mean in certain towns.
in my regio, not a real problem
in specific occasion, visiting battlefield, museums, visit of reanactment camps, aso aso... ; no problem
but in bigger town, where exist a mix of populations, i don't dare to show my favorite jacket.

so sad.....

 

[442RCT]

When I make them in leather, I never put nipps. I think and have been told it's a good idea.

:lol: I bought one of your naked lady ATC patches, I never noticed the lack of anatomical correctness. . I still haven't had it sewn on an A-2 yet.

As for political correctness of A-2 jackets with pin-ups on the back, I have jackets I wear without worrying about PC and there are some I don't wear in public.

 

[dmar836]

I understand what Alan means. The plump, legs, the, the, well, it is a little off in a way. Then again, many of the original designs were that way. Too far the other way with this patch and it would look like an applique over a dial - too detailed for the subtle substitution of the time.
Speaking of differing tastes, Of the jacket art shots, the last two are nice and look authentic in design and detail. To me all shown before it are simply tributes, far too busy and detailed, and nothing like originals would look. Love the last two!
JMO,
Dave

 

[herk115]

However being honest I think the patch is poor in design and quality and to me is close to being unwearable and does not compliment your A2.

Alan,

Thanks for your input and I certainly understand what you are saying. However, if you had seen this jacket prior to being "patched," you'd understand why I had to put something there. The jacket's previous owner, unknown to me, had glued as well as stitched a patch in place. When I went to remove it, off came the patch, leaving a large 5-inch scar of dried glue and peeled dye and leather. The jacket is ruined in that spot, so nothing I do will make it look worse...I can only make it better. I chose not to replace the original patch because I wanted a patch representing something from my own personal history, and since I flew for the USAF Air Mobility Command, which is a lineal descendant of the Air Transport Command, I chose ATC, and this particular ATC patch was the only one available to me. Someday I will replace it with a better version, but this will have to do for now. Trust me, you'd agree if you saw this jacket patchless. There is a big collector's show in the Los Angeles area this May. Perhaps I'll find something there.

Cheers,

Larry

 

[herk115]

Nice artwork! I notice that on "Forever Marylin" the young lady's breasts are covering up the letters "FU" that were painted on the side of nearly every F-86 built. Coincidence?

 

[442RCT]

I understand what Alan means. The plump, legs, the, the, well, it is a little off in a way. Then again, many of the original designs were that way. Too far the other way with this patch and it would look like an applique over a dial - too detailed for the subtle substitution of the time.
Speaking of differing tastes, Of the jacket art shots, the last two are nice and look authentic in design and detail. To me all shown before it are simply tributes, far too busy and detailed, and nothing like originals would look. Love the last two!
JMO,
Dave

Your opinion means a lot, I've seen and 'borrowed' a lot of the original photos from your blog.
You're totally right about 'taste', even though I like original artwork from WW2, I'm one of those who prefer the detailed tribute type artwork on my personal jackets, my favorite artist is Jerome Urbaniak.

Spring Plowin' is a copy of an original jacket back.

My research on, Shanghai Lil , indicates the cartoon gal was from one plane and the lettering and name. Shanghi Lil was from another plane.

 

[bfrench]

Hi, Guys,

This from a 65 year old fart who some think should be relegated to the dustbin.

The jacket art was created for a group of 20 year old guys who were living on the edge - in fact that whole generation defined that phrase - the jackets were meant to impress each other and were seldom worn off base.

A perfect place to display these would be WWII based airshow and displays - they become part of the reality of that time and are a real tribute to the guys who wore them.

Now we get guys who are in their 50s or older sporting them around town in today's politically correct world we don't stand a chance - the best thing is the people who are complaining probably only see the nudity and don't realize the historical significance.

But like the Chaplin said to the guys just before they returned home on leave - "Don't ask Mom to pass you the f***n' butter."

Wear the jackets proudly but be aware or beware of your surroundings.

 

[bobbyball]

Hi, Guys,

This from a 65 year old fart who some think should be relegated to the dustbin.

The jacket art was created for a group of 20 year old guys who were living on the edge - in fact that whole generation defined that phrase - the jackets were meant to impress each other and were seldom worn off base.

A perfect place to display these would be WWII based airshow and displays - they become part of the reality of that time and are a real tribute to the guys who wore them.

Now we get guys who are in their 50s or older sporting them around town in today's politically correct world we don't stand a chance - the best thing is the people who are complaining probably only see the nudity and don't realize the historical significance.

But like the Chaplin said to the guys just before they returned home on leave - "Don't ask Mom to pass you the f***n' butter."

Wear the jackets proudly but be aware or beware of your surroundings.

I couldn't agree more with you Bill,

The originals were painted by/and for pilots who were not sure if they would survive the next mission. Most of us today cannot understand or appreciate what that means. IMO, there is a big difference between original pin-up and a lot of the repro stuff. I have an original CBI jacket with the nude ATC patch along with an original Vargas style pin-up jacket – but they leave a lot more to the imagination than certain repro patches. Somehow the original stuff did not look like pornography. Yes, you do have to be careful about wearing it in public as the general population don't get it. To my mind, the original pin up stuff really is really no different to that of a Rubens of it's day.

 

[unclegrumpy]

I agree with the some of the other posts....if you went with a layered leather version like most of the originals were, there would be far less controversy over wearing this particular patch in public. a2jacketpatches on this forum makes very nice layered leather patches, which would be a significant upgrade to the one you have now.

This is what two originals looks like...

 

[herk115]

I agree with the some of the other posts....if you went with a layered leather version like most of the originals were, there would be far less controversy over wearing this particular patch in public. a2jacketpatches on this forum makes very nice layered leather patches, which would be a significant upgrade to the one you have now.

One of these would be perfect. How do I get in touch with this gentleman?

 

[unclegrumpy]

One of these would be perfect. How do I get in touch with this gentleman?

Either wait for him to hopefully find your post, or go back in this thread to his post and send him a Private Message (PM). You will see the PM button under the message box.

 

[herk115]

a2jacketpatches on this forum makes very nice layered leather patches, which would be a significant upgrade to the one you have now.

I do want to say that a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder. Sure, I'd like a better looking patch. Yet every time I look at this jacket either in the mirror on laying on the bed as it is now, the crude, hand-made quality of it seems perfect. It has a "field-made" look that some of the vintage patches did. For example, I have my father's A-2 patch from the 49th Bomb Squadron (2nd Bomb Group), to which he was transferred in the fall of 1942 in Lewistown, Montana. The patch was hand-drawn on what looks to be some kind of stiff-backed fabric. I can't tell if the medium was ink, paint, or pastels. All of the squadron's patches were hand made, and I have a group photo of my dad and four other officers, all wearing these not so perfect hand made patches. I've posted two pictures here http://www.jetgouge.com/A-2%20Jackets.html below the pics of myself. Take a look for yourselves.

However, I agree with those who say a better quality patch would be far more appropriate for my jacket. You guys are correct. My initial concern was not over the quality of the patch, but over the public display of nudity, however crude.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I've been looking for photos of my ATC's but can't find them anywhere. Give me about a week as I make a few different variations, I've got a custom one to do already so I usually take the opportunity to make several since I'll be in the groove for it. What's the diameter you need to cover? These are about 5.5" with a border. Also, you can chech out my store to get an idea of what my work looks like.
http://stores.ebay.com/a2jacketpatches

 

[herk115]

What's the diameter you need to cover? These are about 5.5" with a border.

5.5" would be perfect, and I'll check out your store ASAP.

Cheers,

Larry

 

[unclegrumpy]

I have my father's A-2 patch from the 49th Bomb Squadron (2nd Bomb Group), to which he was transferred in the fall of 1942 in Lewistown, Montana. The patch was hand-drawn on what looks to be some kind of stiff-backed fabric. I can't tell if the medium was ink, paint, or pastels. All of the squadron's patches were hand made, and I have a group photo of my dad and four other officers, all wearing these not so perfect hand made patches. I've posted two pictures here http://www.jetgouge.com/A-2%20Jackets.html below the pics of myself. Take a look for yourselves.

The patch you have looks like a US made patch. I have not see this version of the 49th Bomb Squadron before, but it looks like something probably made by a company that made emblems for Colleges, High Schools, or sports teams. It looks screen printed to me....like a sports pennant or an emblem for a team sweater.

 

[herk115]

I have my father's A-2 patch from the 49th Bomb Squadron (2nd Bomb Group), to which he was transferred in the fall of 1942 in Lewistown, Montana. The patch was hand-drawn on what looks to be some kind of stiff-backed fabric. I can't tell if the medium was ink, paint, or pastels. All of the squadron's patches were hand made, and I have a group photo of my dad and four other officers, all wearing these not so perfect hand made patches. I've posted two pictures here http://www.jetgouge.com/A-2%20Jackets.html below the pics of myself. Take a look for yourselves.

The patch you have looks like a US made patch. I have not see this version of the 49th Bomb Squadron before, but it looks like something probably made by a company that made emblems for Colleges, High Schools, or sports teams. It looks screen printed to me....like a sports pennant or an emblem for a team sweater.

Maybe so...but notice the patch pictured is not the one my dad is wearing. You can see obvious differences. Every one of those patches has minor differences, as if they were hand made. I've done some screen printing of my own and in my experience the prints were much more uniform. But you could be right.