A Question of What's Correct Today.

[Silver Dollar]

I have a weird question for those who do a good deal of jacket painting. Is it politically correct or incorrect to display kill marks on the back of a painted flight jacket, i.e. swastikas, black crosses and meatballs. I've seen a number of them on jackets displayed on the site but here we all know what they mean. Are they best left off the jackets or are they critical to the authenticity of the art? I know mission markers don't raise any eye brows but swastikas and meatballs? Any opinions will be more than appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Vcruiser]

I don't know...but think it quite sad that anyone should feel it necessary to be concerned about what some think must now be politically correct. In my view...if we are attempting to emulate the WW2 era...we should do just that.
Van

 

[442RCT]

As a reproduction art jacket collector, I pretty much agree with Vcruiser, In Japan where a lot of art jackets are painted, purchased and worn, having meatball kill marks aren't any big deal. One poster said some Jewish woman gave him hell when she misinterpreted the nazi kill marks on the back of his jacket. One of my jackets, "Winn's Warrior's". has a very large swastika overlaying a FW silhouette prominently displayed on the upper right hand corner. When people ask about it, it gives me a 'teachable moment'. :roll:

As far as being un-PC, the pin-up art on jacket backs are more of a PC issue than the kill marks. :lol:

 

[capt71]

Deleted

 

[Silver Dollar]

Thanks guys for the quick replies and the kind words. I feel that we've gone a bit overboard on the politically correct thing especially when it comes to past history. I do believe that some things are in bad taste and can create the wrong impression but it tends to spill over into other things making it ridiculous. I remember when I was active duty and had my office decorated with pictures from the 50's. My commander had me take down a picture of Marilyn Monroe in a gown that he said might offend some of the women. She wasn't nude and the dress wasn't revealling. Even he thought it was stupid but we still had to do it. Sexual harrassment was a pretty sore subject at that time.

 

[442RCT]

I guess i could have put swastika kill marks at the bottom of this jacket... , it would have totally confused some folks. :lol:

 

[Silver Dollar]

Fantastic artwork. You got the characters spot on. Way cool.

 

[CBI]

this issue comes up every few months. Considering the general public has no idea of what WWII pin up/jacket art is about, I DO avoid any questionable items ON jackets. No nudes, no swastkas, no bombs, etc. That leaves things limited but with a little ingenuity, one can still wear cool stuff. Thoughts on this vary but again, most people don't get this stuff and can easily get offened or think what you are wearing is just strange. Why wear something that turns lots of people off? I know many think, to heck with it all, let me just wear what I like but frankly that CAN be dissrespectful if it ends up offending someone. Most standard retail clothing does not do this so why go there??? Again, one can make WWII art work with some forethought.

 

[442RCT]

Would you believe the jacket shown in your avatar might be possibly be offensive to someone ? Or is it one that you consider made with forethought ?

 

[Silver Dollar]

I just remembered one extreme example where the pin up was a real problem. When I was active duty back in 1990, I expected my squadron to be mobilized to Desert Shield in Saudi. Over there, you really have to be careful what you bring or it can be confiscated. They really frown on pinups if you know what I mean. They even banned Barbie dolls over there. I wanted to bring one of my repro jackets along as a wall decoration, sort of a reminder of home. I sure didn't need it for the warmth. I had to paint a new jacket that was completely neutral, no pinups or anything suspect. Here's what I came up with.

It would have probably been stolen anyway.

 

[CBI]

good question, yes. The one on my avatar was made with these PC thougts in mind. She is clothed, pretty well covered, etc. (period swimwear but nothing too revealing) "Visibility Perfect" is a pretty low key "name". I have had lots of comments from male and female and actually, a number of ladies have commented on her period "wholesome" look. No cleavage or too much of anything else. No bombs, axis symbols, etc. Still works however I have to say that I still feel a little uneasy wearing it sometimes as most folks still don't get it. I am currently avoiding back art on my next few jackets. I actally just removed a large painting off of am Tuskegee A-2. It was of an airplane and said "Tall in the Saddle". Too many wierd looks/questions. "What's Tall in the Saddle mean? Its not a cowboy jacket is it? I really don't want to be answering these questions that I DO get asked!!!! Could be just me but I seem to have found a happy medium w/o back art for right now. I would actually sell the jacket in the avatar if I thought I could get enought for it (considering the time involved in painting it). Might show up on eBay some day!

 

[capt71]

I guess i could have put swastika kill marks at the bottom of this jacket... , it would have totally confused some folks. :lol:

Yeah, I can hear it now: "My God, you mean the 7 Dwarves were NAZIs?? Is that Eva Braun with them?"

 

[442RCT]

I would actually sell the jacket in the avatar if I thought I could get enough for it (considering the time involved in painting it). Might show up on eBay some day!

What size is it ? I collect painted jackets. I'll keep an eye out for it.

In my short eBay experience, jacket art rarely adds value to a jacket, or may actually lower the resell value of a premium jacket. When "Winn's Warriors" showed up on eBay, after all the bidding was done, I paid, $ 404 plus shipping. That seller now contacts me directly if he has a painted jacket for sale, giving me the option of paying his BIN, before listing it on eBay for auction.

 

[Silver Dollar]

Looks like things have changed. Back about 25 years ago when I was desperattely looking for my frst original A2, an unpainted jacket went sold for about $200 to $600 depending on the condition. A painted jacket could fetch up to $1200 bucks. Now it looks like the reverse.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

I know my wife would have a fit if I sported an A-2 with swastikas painted on the back. Even if I explained what they represent, she would still be highly offended. Born and raised in Germany, that stuff is still very sensitive no matter how it's represented. And yes, I respect it fully on her part.

Not a big fan of painted A-2s especially the very intricate ones as they are not historically accurate but WOW, that's some amazing work!!!

 

[442RCT]

Looks like things have changed. Back about 25 years ago when I was desperately looking for my first original A2, an unpainted jacket went sold for about $200 to $600 depending on the condition. A painted jacket could fetch up to $1200 bucks. Now it looks like the reverse.

When you're talking about original vintage jackets, you're right, artwork does indeed increase their value, but on the reproduction jackets that I buy, painting on them has the opposite effect.

 

[442RCT]

I know my wife would have a fit if I sported an A-2 with swastikas painted on the back. Even if I explained what they represent, she would still be highly offended. Born and raised in Germany, that stuff is still very sensitive no matter how it's represented. And yes, I respect it fully on her part.

Not a big fan of painted A-2s especially the very intricate ones as they are not historically accurate but WOW, that's some amazing work!!!

How about this for being PC...I painted it for my son when he was 12. He outgrew it in about a year. He was bummed that it was too small for him when we went to Disneyland.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Love it! And that certainly would fit right in at Disneyland

 

[MikeyB-17]

I think you're in dodgy territory putting swastikas on anything, historical accuracy or no. It's still far too offensive to too many people, and too open to misinterpretation. Somebody's bound to get the hump over it. Be nice to think you could put whatever the hell you like on your jackets, particularly as it's meant as a tribute, but it's too emotive a subject for too many folks, and you're bound to run into trouble. I would have thought you could get away with black crosses to indicate aircraft victories-the Luftwaffe is, AFAIK, still using them as its insignia, or at least has done so since the War.
Bombs, well, I've got a bomb on my A-2 squadron patch (548th BS, 385th BG, Bugs Bunny sitting on one), and I've never had a problem with that. Pinup art I also think you can get away with if it's not too pornographic. There are people out there just dying to take offence at something, and there's a chance you might come across some whacko who gets shirty, but there are plenty more offensive symbols around on band T-shirts for instance, than on any A-2.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Disney Corporation didn't try to charge you for use of their image without permission!

 

[Silver Dollar]

I know my wife would have a fit if I sported an A-2 with swastikas painted on the back. Even if I explained what they represent, she would still be highly offended. Born and raised in Germany, that stuff is still very sensitive no matter how it's represented. And yes, I respect it fully on her part.

Not a big fan of painted A-2s especially the very intricate ones as they are not historically accurate but WOW, that's some amazing work!!!

That's right!! I remember now. I've been told by some German nationals that it's illegal to own anything with the swastika on it. They do a lot of repros of medals etc but where there was supposed to be a swastika, it was blank. Still, they get ahold of a lot of stuff.

Looks like things have changed. Back about 25 years ago when I was desperately looking for my first original A2, an unpainted jacket went sold for about $200 to $600 depending on the condition. A painted jacket could fetch up to $1200 bucks. Now it looks like the reverse.

When you're talking about original vintage jackets, you're right, artwork does indeed increase their value, but on the reproduction jackets that I buy, painting on them has the opposite effect.

Aha!! Now that makes sense. I had no idea that repros with art were less expensive.

Thanks Mikey. After all of the comments I got here, I think I'll just leave the markings off the jackets. Discretion really is the better part of valor.

Thanks again to all you guys who have commented on this subject. You helped me clarify an unusual situation.