A-2 original ?

[Kermit3D]

I am not an expert... and I don't know how original (or not) this A-2 is. the zipper seems suspicious...
Maybe someone might be interested.

A2 1940s PATCH JACKET

SIZE : Medium ERA : 1940’s ORIGIN : USA We offer shipping Worldwide France domestic : Flat rate 8€ / Europe : 16€ / Worldwide : 30€ If you are in Paris you can pick up your order a the shop f…

brut-clothing.com

 

[Flightengineer]

Zipper is modern cheap Talon repro.
It is strange that such broad shoulders with such a small pit-to-pit. There is no photo of the back and in general the photos were taken as if on purpose to hide the nuances. No photo of buttons for example.

 

[Brettafett]

Could be... Looks like a Star Sportswear to me.

 

[Flightengineer]

Could be... Looks like a Star Sportswear to me.

Star with shoulders 47 cm and chest 51 cm?

Quickly scanned several of their military jackets.
Many inaccuracies in the descriptions and a very high price for such a condition.
Some jackets that they claim are from the USSR (or from Bulgaria) are actually not the USSR, and the stencil inscriptions in Russian are just gibberish that makes no sense ha ha.

 

[missonnier]

Hello, it was one of mine
authentic ww2 star sporrswear, size 38.
BUT, partially in bad shape on the left shoulder as i totally fuck up to put correctly the US army star, as I replaced by a ww2 5th AF. The hide on this shoulder is quiet burn, not a good deal !

 

[Flightengineer]

Hello, it was one of mine
authentic ww2 star sporrswear, size 38.
BUT, partially in bad shape on the left shoulder as i totally fuck up to put correctly the US army star, as I replaced by a ww2 5th AF. The hide on this shoulder is quiet burn, not a good deal !

Incredible!
And size 38 Star had shoulders 47 cm wide? Or did shop measure it like that?

 

[Smithy]

I'm far from an A-2 expert so take this with a pinch of salt but aren't Stars famed for having quite dramatically wider shoulders/upper back pattern than other contracts?

 

[Brettafett]

I also cant be sure and stand to be corrected, but I think they made some post-war A-2s also... Without the label its hard to nail down...

 

[Flightengineer]

I'm far from an A-2 expert so take this with a pinch of salt but aren't Stars famed for having quite dramatically wider shoulders/upper back pattern than other contracts?

Tim no, the Star is considered one of the narrowest A2 contracts.
My ELC Star in size 40 has 43 cm (17") shoulders.
47 cm (18.5") would be for 46 size Star. Not for 38 size..If Eastman is right.

History Preservation Eastman USAAF A-2 Flying Jacket, Star Sportswear 28857 | History Preservation

The Eastman Star Sportswear A-2 Jacket copies original manufacturer details from 1942; this A-2 is for those who want more than accuracy - they want history!

www.historypreservation.com

 

[Brettafett]

Ive never seen an original Star, let alone tried one one, but as far as ELC's version goes, I could not wear a 40. Even the 42 was tight in the shoulders for me...

 

[Flightengineer]

Ive never seen an original Star, let alone tried one one, but as far as ELC's version goes, I could not wear a 40. Even the 42 was tight in the shoulders for me...

We need Burt @B-Man2 input, he own original Star in size 46

 

[Smithy]

Tim no, the Star is considered one of the narrowest A2 contracts.

That's strange Dmitry because I just had a look at John's site and with the Star he says that they have "very roomy upper back/shoulder area" and that " they designed the upper back to be wider than other A-2s".

 

[Flightengineer]

That's strange Dmitry because I just had a look at John's site and with the Star he says that they have "very roomy upper back/shoulder area" and that " they designed the upper back to be wider than other A-2s".

Hard to say Tim. Like Brett, I've never seen the original Star.

 

[Brettafett]

You know, just looking at a couple of WWII pics I have of guys wearing a Star, it 'appears' they they are roomy in the shoulders and not trim.
I wonder if its not ELC's particular jacket that they have copied...
Just adds to the 'variations among originals' debate...,

I was looking at the pic of their original RW1401, the pocket flaps (left & right) on this jacket are different. there appear to have based their 1401 repro on the left flap, which appears unlike any original RW1401 or RW pic Ive seen. Again, I have never seen an original RW1401 up close...

 

[Smithy]

You know, just looking at a couple of WWII pics I have of guys wearing a Star, it 'appears' they they are roomy in the shoulders and not trim.
I wonder if its not ELC's particular jacket that they have copied...

There's been discussion in the past here and over at the Salon du Chapeau that perhaps some of ELC's jackets weren't entirely based on the actual pattern of the respective original involved.

I can't remember if there was a definitive conclusion to this or whether this relates to old pattern ELCs but I suppose if they are making them with narrow shoulders and upper backs that might explain why they digress from the characteristics of the original pattern - if indeed all the originals were like that. JC is usually pretty spot on with his identifying particularities of contracts though.

 

[Flightengineer]

Brett, I think you're right. Deviations are possible within any contract, because there was a wartime. And the repro depends only on what kind of original gets into the hands of the reproducer for copying. It's like the location of the pockets on Dubow you talked about.

 

[Flightengineer]

There's been discussion in the past here and over at the Salon du Chapeau that perhaps some of ELC's jackets weren't entirely based on the actual pattern of the respective original involved.

I can't remember if there was a definitive conclusion to this or whether this relates to old pattern ELCs but I suppose if they are making them with narrow shoulders and upper backs that might explain why they digress from the characteristics of the original pattern - if indeed all the originals were like that. JC is usually pretty spot on with his identifying particularities of contracts though.

In fairness and curiosity, I read what John writes, but there is only about the "upper back" and not about the shoulders.
Could it be that he meant exactly the part of the back of the jacket and not the trim in the shoulders?

The Star pattern is somewhat trim arount the waist, but very comfortable, because they designed the upper back to be wider than other A-2s.

Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Star Sportswear 42-18245-P

www.goodwearleather.com

Also interesting, here is the Star that John made - size 42 and shoulder width 19.75 "

Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Sale Star Sportswear Type A-2 Jacket

www.goodwearleather.com

And here is the Star made by John in size 44 and shoulder width 19.5"

Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Sale Star Sportswear A-2 Jacket

www.goodwearleather.com

Size 42L and shoulder width 18 "

Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Sale Good Wear Star Sportswear A-2 Jacket

www.goodwearleather.com

Probably everything is very ambiguous

 

[Smithy]

In fairness and curiosity, I read what John writes, but there is only about the "upper back" and not about the shoulders.

Hi Dmitry,

No John also talks about both the shoulders and the upper back area being roomy which implies that whilst narrow and trim in the body the upper area of this contract is roomier - John says that it's bigger than other A-2 contracts.

This would suggest to me that if ELC's pattern doesn't exhibit this then they've either based it on a trim original version of a Star (if such a thing exists), or their pattern is incorrect to the original Star contract and based on something else.

 

[Flightengineer]

Hi Dmitry,

No John also talks about both the shoulders and the upper back area being roomy which implies that whilst narrow and trim in the body the upper area of this contract is roomier - John says that it's bigger than other A-2 contracts.

This would suggest to me that if ELC's pattern doesn't exhibit this then they've either based it on a trim original version of a Star (if such a thing exists), or their pattern is incorrect to the original Star contract and based on something else.

Yes Tim, only Gary probably knows this, but he is unlikely to tell us

 

[Brettafett]

I really think this all goes down to maker interpretation, based on what they have in their collections or have inspected.
Possibly also grading sizes...

Gary certainly has at least one Star, I think its a 42 based on his book.
John must certainly have owned or handled them. Both of these gents must have inspected multiple examples.

ELC have certainly tweaked their patterns over the years, and I would take measurements off John's jackets with a pinch of salt (unless stated by him that a jacket in question is an exact clone),
John is/was very amenable to tweaking his jackets for customers.
I am sure he has made many jackets that are exact to originals, but there are also many that have been 'customised'... You'll find jackets of the same make and size measuring up differently.

This jacket reminds me of one that someone found in a thrift shop... Is this the same jacket?