23rd FG patch selection / placement question

[coolhandluke]

Looking for a little assistance regarding patch selection for an upcoming project.

After seeing the shoulder roundel on the Eastman jacket shown below, I ordered bullion 23rd FG, CBI, and AAF roundel patches from 5*.

After doing so, I've found that most other Flying Tigers jackets that I've found examples of have a 14th Air Force patch on the right shoulder in lieu of the AAF roundel. Are there historical examples of both being used or is this incorrect placement/ usage by ELC? I see other CBI jackets utilizing AAF roundels on the right sleeve, but not much in the way of 23rd FG.

BTW, kudos to Shawn @ 5* for his leather and bullion patch offerings. I was beyond thrilled to find this leather 511th BS patch offered on his site.

 

[warguy]

You pose an interesting question. I cant find an example of an original 23rd FG A2 online. There are some great pics of Tex Hill wearing his Navy flight jacket with this patch on it, but he is standing so that the CBI patch on his shoulder shows and you can’t see the patch on the other side. Here is my two opinion though…..I dont think ELC‘s jacket with this patch configuration is “wrong” and I believe that the Hap Arnold winged star patch was likely worn on jackets worn by the Flying Tigers both before and after July 4, 1941 when the AVG was disbanded and later rolled into the 14th AF. I do have a large A2 Jacket grouping to a Navigator who flew B24’s in the 10th AF in the CBI. While his uniforms all have beautiful bullion 10th AF patches, his A2 as well as his M41 jackets are patched with CBI on one shoulder and the Hap Arnold winged star on the other, and not the 10th AF. I just think both patches (the Hap Arnold or the specific AF were likely used). Just my two cents.

 

[coolhandluke]

Thanks @warguy. In full disclosure, I'm not going to be patching an A2. I was considering patching a tanker, similar to the way that the RM tanker shown below is patched. If the AAF roundel is acceptable, I just need to find a decent quality blood chit to use. 5* has leather chits, but I would prefer to use cloth or canvas so that I can still wash the jacket on occasion.

I am assuming that the RM tanker is historically accurate and not a fantasy piece. If it is the latter, I'd definitely appreciate a heads up. I'm not sure if my usage of an AAF roundel on a post-AVG era jacket would be appropriate.

 

[Brettafett]

AVG did not have patches, the 3rd PS had the Hells Angles motif, all the patches came with the 23rd, and 14AF

There were variations, Ive got almost all the books on the 23rd FG (and AVG)...
Most CBI flight jackets, esp from the 23rd FG, had the AAF roundel on right and the CBI shield on the left, as per ELCs jacket.
Ive not seen many jackets with the 14th patch, seen a handful... but then Ive not really looked.
There are also jackets with nothing on the shoulders and a couple Ive seen with the USAAF decal on the right (maybe late war?)
p.s. photo thumbnails intentional

 

[Brettafett]

Alternatives

EDWARD O. MCCOMAS' A-2 with 14th roundel (CBI removed)

23FG leaders

 

[coolhandluke]

Thanks Brett!

 

[CBI]

I know you already bought the patches but layered leather ones would be the correct way to go and look super

FLYING TIGERS / FEI HU

A2jacketpatches / Multi-piece Leather Squadron Patches ...a2jacketpatcheshttps://www.a2jacketpatches.com

 

[coolhandluke]

I know you already bought the patches but layered leather ones would be the correct way to go and look super

FLYING TIGERS / FEI HU

A2jacketpatches / Multi-piece Leather Squadron Patches ...a2jacketpatcheshttps://www.a2jacketpatches.com

Thanks John. 5* also had all of the same patches in the stacked leather versions. I just opted for the bullion since the patches were going on a canvas jacket that I'd like to be able to wash on occasion.

During what timeframe were bullion patches used on CBI theater uniforms and jackets? Or were the layered leather patches the norm on flight jackets throughout the war in the CBI?

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

 

[Silver Surfer]

this is by no means an iron clad rule, but embroidered, and bullion patches were applied to cloth dress and field uniforms, although they do occasionally show up on a-2s . for the most part the shoulder patches were either painted on or were multi layered leather [ goat, cape, moo]. some with leather borders, some with out. the cbi in general was more tolerant of variations than the eto. btw, I have see hq patches on both the left [official] and the right shoulders, on a-2s. chest patches were made of anything and everything. embroidered painted, multilayered leather, etc.

 

[CBI]

yes, SS is correct. bullion generally for dress uniforms if worried about washing, embroidered would be best although layered leather holds up pretty well. Bullion is going to be the most prone to getting damaged washing. Frequently, on dress uniforms, bullion patches had buttons/clips on the back that snapped onto snaps on the uniform so they could be removed for washing

 

[coolhandluke]

this is by no means an iron clad rule, but embroidered, and bullion patches were applied to cloth dress and field uniforms, although they do occasionally show up on a-2s . for the most part the shoulder patches were either painted on or were multi layered leather [ goat, cape, moo]. some with leather borders, some with out. the cbi in general was more tolerant of variations than the eto. btw, I have see hq patches on both the left [official] and the right shoulders, on a-2s. chest patches were made of anything and everything. embroidered painted, multilayered leather, etc.

Thanks Vic. I sincerely appreciate the info.