RW 27752 epaulet rise

As Rotenhahn pointed out in an earlier thread - the epaulet rise or bubble over the shoulder is characteristic of the RW 27752 A-2 contract.

Why does this happen? What's the theory behind this?

Shouldn't the epaulet lay flat along the shoulder line?

How could you fix it?

Bill French

Maybe it has to do with the relative wideness of the epaulet in combination with the tapering towards the neck and the narrowly spaced twin stich lines wich creates a certain tension that pushes the leather up.

Why would you want to fix it ?

I think I remember discussing this subject a while back with J. Chapman. Maybe John will see this thread and give us some info on the reason for it.


Ted

Curahee said:

Maybe it has to do with the relative wideness of the epaulet in combination with the tapering towards the neck and the narrowly spaced twin stich lines wich creates a certain tension that pushes the leather up.

Why would you want to fix it ?

Click to expand...

If it's meant to lay flat - then it should.

Just another ocd item that drives me nuts especially when it is so readily visible.

Bill French

this eastman does not suffer from lifting epaulets (and it looks good),

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/eval_ELCrw27752.shtml

this is real mccoy japan, epaulets not sitting flat,

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/eval_RMJrw.shtml


and the original RW 16159 has lifting epaulets.

I have been through several original 27752s. Some have them, some don't. The example currentlly in my possesion has it on...it think the right side. I simply thought it was a manufacturing nuance typical of what was found out there. The ep was cut and made slightly too long for the distance between the collar stand and the sleeve. Maybe they slapped a 42 pattern cut ep on a size 40 ???

-Kevin.

The original Rough Wear 18091 that I took apart did this, and it was definitely on purpose. The epaulets have a very slight curve, pointing to the back of the jacket. The curve is mostly in the outer 1/3 of the epaulet. So, when the epaulet is applied to the jacket, the front facing edge sits flush with the body panel, and the back edge of the epaulet bows up a bit. It's extremely minute, but one can see it if you know it's there.

With the slop of originals, the epaulets may or many not bow up in the back, but the one I had, along with several others I've seen in person, all had this design feature. I've yet to see another company make Rough Wear epaulets with the subtle curve at the end...they're always made with a straight line. This may please some customers, but I prefer the curve, personally.

Another detail about epaulets that most companies today don't want to copy is that the top leather piece of almost all original makers had a very small fold on the long edge. The top leather will almost always end *between* the two parallel stitch lines, not deeply past the two lines. If this is done right, the leather between the two parallel stitch lines has a slight ridge, being that it's three pieces of leather stacked, where the center of the epaulet is only two pieces of leather. I like the look that this creates. All too often I see the cut end of the epaulet well into the center of the epaulet, a detail that I just don't see on originals except a Perry or two and the no-name 42-18246-P, and even then, it's not much.

Hope that helps,
John

Thanks for that input, John.......interesting information, indeed.


Ted

Hi, John,

Thanks, also.

Another tidbit that explains some of the nuances of the A-2.

Now if only someone could explain why they used epaulets in the first place -

Gawd, the details are driving me nuts.

Bill French

Good question. I truly don't know, but I've been wondering if it was a way of supporting the leather seam of the front and back panels. That area would get heavy pressure from parachute harnesses and other straps, and the epaulet design may have made that seam less able to come loose over a year or two of wear. I wonder if A-1 jackets had this trouble and the epaulets resolved it. Just a though, and it could be totally wrong.

John

I had read somewhere that epaulets or shoulder rank dates back to Roman days, or something like that. Apparently officers wore their rank on their shoulders signifying that they "shouldered" the responsibility of command while enlisted men wore their rank on their sleeves as the workhorse or muscle if you will of the military......a "style" that has persisted through the ages.....

Hacker

hacker said:

I had read somewhere that epaulets or shoulder rank dates back to Roman days, or something like that. Apparently officers wore their rank on their shoulders signifying that they "shouldered" the responsibility of command while enlisted men wore their rank on their sleeves as the workhorse or muscle if you will of the military......a "style" that has persisted through the ages.....

Hacker

Click to expand...

Wow- learning from Hacker! I agree- I think the epaulet on the A-2 is like the human appendix- a vestigial organ. Have seen photos of buttoned epaulets used to hold straps for bags and stuff on foot soldiers- but I think they are functionless on an A-2 (barring John's seam theory is correct ).

My ELC 1401 epps didn't sit flat. I thought it was a problem at first but then seeing original pics I realised it was pretty normal

Did we rule out their use as handholds for pulling the pilot out of the cockpit in a crash? I know that's what racing drivers' overalls have them for nowadays-I do have a vague recollection of this being discussed before.