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Three M 422's

J

Jeff M

New Member
Here are some photos of 3 M-422 design jackets...a size 42 vintage 1940's Edmund T Church M 422, a size 46 Good Wear Monarch M 422, and a size 44 Bill Kelso Willis and Geiger M 422.

In this photo, the BK is on the left, the GW in the middle, the ET Church on the right; (Sorry, don't know how to rotate the picture when downloading it to the forum. It's rotated on PhotoBucket.)

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Next, 3 photos of the ET Church;
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3 of the Good Wear;
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And 3 of the Bill Kelso;
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Sorry for using so much bandwidth. Wasn't sure how to post them all together and use less.
 
R

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Very nice indeed Jeff. I love the Church. I guess this wasn't the one which recently sold on Ebay which appeared to have shortish sleeves?
 
Peter Graham

Peter Graham

Well-Known Member
Great jackets. The sleeves on the Kelso look rather long. Can you post a closeup pic of the label on the Church ? It looks quite unusual.
 
J

Jeff M

New Member
Yes. The BK sleeves and body are quite long on me. The torse fit is also rather large...though the chest and shoulders fit fine.
I stand 5'9".
I gave the jacket to my son, who stands 6'3", and the length was perfect for him.

I purchased the Church from John Chapman. As I recall, he did get it from eBay. He put a reproduction label on it, as it's original label was missing, and replaced the knits.
 
767fo

767fo

Active Member
Jeff M said:
767fo said:
They all look great Jeff!!
Click to expand...

The GW is the one I purchased from you Allen.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

It looks great on you. If I wasn't lucky enough to get the new Bogen from John I would never have sold it. But I have to say it looks better on you. Enjoy!!
 
ties70

ties70

Well-Known Member
I think I had the impression already from other BK M-422 jackets' pictures:
The waistband seems quite loose, which gives the jacket a boxy appearance.... but I am no big fan of the rib-rack waistband anyway, so if this is the way it has to be....?

Otherwise the BK looks perfectly made, and if Platon's troops will start to make an Ostermann M-422a with the double layer I am in...

Ties
 
J

Jeff M

New Member
ties70 said:
I think I had the impression already from other BK M-422 jackets' pictures:
The waistband seems quite loose, which gives the jacket a boxy appearance.... but I am no big fan of the rib-rack waistband anyway, so if this is the way it has to be....?

Otherwise the BK looks perfectly made, and if Platon's troops will start to make an Ostermann M-422a with the double layer I am in...

Ties
Click to expand...

I don't think the knits are the deciding factor in how boxy the jackets are.
Both the E.T. Church and the GW Monarch fit trim in the body. I own several other Navy flight jackets..both vintage (50+ years old) and repro (another GW) and they all are trim fitting too...despite the knits on the vintage G1's having all loosened up a bit.
The BK is built boxier.
This seems to be a function of how BK designed their jacket combined with the stiffness of the leather they use, with the BK leather being relatively stiff.
If my E. T Church and my vintage G1's are a 1 on a scale of 10 for stiffness (10 being more stiff), the BK goatskin is a 7.
This is best seen in how the sleeves fold in the photos.
My GW's are a 2.
 
J

Jeff M

New Member
mindful said:
chapmans monarch is pretty dam perfect
Click to expand...

I think so.
Especially considering that the jacket was not made custom to my measurements...the fit is pretty much spot on.
 
767fo

767fo

Active Member
Jeff M said:
mindful said:
chapmans monarch is pretty dam perfect
Click to expand...

I think so.
Especially considering that the jacket was not made custom to my measurements...the fit is pretty much spot on.
Click to expand...

The jacket was made for me and I liked the fit and it is perfectly made. John's attention to detail and craftsmanship is really over the top. The Monarch has more of a tube shape in the body and the Bogen I just received is still trim in the waist but much larger in the shoulders and back which does much better for my body shape. The Bogen I bought from John was made for another customer and the fit couldn't be any better if he made it for me. Sometime things work out that way:) enjoy the Monarch Jeff, Allen
 
Marv

Marv

Well-Known Member
Jeff M said:
ties70 said:
I think I had the impression already from other BK M-422 jackets' pictures:
The waistband seems quite loose, which gives the jacket a boxy appearance.... but I am no big fan of the rib-rack waistband anyway, so if this is the way it has to be....?

Otherwise the BK looks perfectly made, and if Platon's troops will start to make an Ostermann M-422a with the double layer I am in...

Ties
Click to expand...

I don't think the knits are the deciding factor in how boxy the jackets are.
Both the E.T. Church and the GW Monarch fit trim in the body. I own several other Navy flight jackets..both vintage (50+ years old) and repro (another GW) and they all are trim fitting too...despite the knits on the vintage G1's having all loosened up a bit.
The BK is built boxier.
This seems to be a function of how BK designed their jacket combined with the stiffness of the leather they use, with the BK leather being relatively stiff.
If my E. T Church and my vintage G1's are a 1 on a scale of 10 for stiffness (10 being more stiff), the BK goatskin is a 7.
This is best seen in how the sleeves fold in the photos.
My GW's are a 2.
Click to expand...

I agree, the goatskin on my BK G&F M422a is much stiffer (not thicker) than the goatskin on my ELC G1 and not as good quality as my Eastman also very difficult to break in.

Even after 4 months of near daily use and a couple of HTW misting sessions, it is still not showing much sign of wear.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yes, it's true that BK goat is on the stiff side.
In the same batch of leathers, there were also some soft skins, so inevitably, some customers got stiff, others got soft.
BK has given specific instructions to their tannery to make the next batch of leathers all soft and a tad thinner.
They have also solved the problem of the loose waistbands.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
and if Platon's troops will start to make an Ostermann M-422a with the double layer I am in
Click to expand...

We have 2-3 ostermann originals but haven't copied them yet.
The problem is that the waistband is not only double layer, it's double weave too.
 
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