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bill kellso ,s a2s
- Thread starter nogbat
- Start date
A
Anonymous
Guest
No, I am still trying to convince them to buy 
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sorry not at the moment no.
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Anonymous
Guest
Maybe they hesitate to buy because the price is cheap?
I don't know. Price is not always in parallel with quality.
I try to give "best value"
I don't know. Price is not always in parallel with quality.
I try to give "best value"
they look very very good. I do not however buy A2's with collar stands, they annoy the hell out of me.. cant help it. certainly the material choices and construction details make for a very competitive jacket... A nice grainy mid brown poughkeepsie with no traces of redness to the shade would be a very quick seller with me. Plus with so many people doing their take on a 27752 and other rough wear contracts as well as dubows, other 'originals' are begging to be made. JC's poughkeepsie looks superb, another one of those on the market would be good.
Plus with so many people doing their take on a 27752 and other rough wear contracts as well as dubows, other 'originals' are begging to be made. JC's poughkeepsie looks superb, another one of those on the market would be good.
A
Anonymous
Guest
10% discount for early birds.
I'm in the market and ready to buy. 360 Euros? Sounds worth the risk. The $70 shipping is a killer though.
My other issues, if I may, and excuse me if I missed details in the recent thread, are that this appears to be basically a house brand like the old ELCs where you pick the details from the different contracts you like and put them into one jacket. Some of us want the manufacture to do this according to specific contracts so we have something to compare to. The smorgasbord method leaves inaccuracies to any one contract partly in the buyers hands with nothing else to compare to. ELC's house was like that. There's a collar stand on this one? Well, some had that. The stitching was olive, tan, or white? Well, some had that too. The pockets or collars are too pointy or square? Well, different contractors had all those characteristics. Pockets are too high? Well, look at this vintage shot. Get my point? What characteristics on this version are from what contract and what is the standard held to(collar and pocket shape, etc.)? In a nutshell, if one replaced the Bill Kelso label with another, what would it say?
Also, I've held off on some other's A-2s due to hide variances. Some are way too lightweight, soft, and grainy up front(the Horween I had was like that) and some appear to never grain up even when the finish is wearing off. Some have changed hides over the years so you aren't sure what you'll get. It's a chance to take and hard to tell where "Kelso's" hides will stand in a year or two. I'm not super hip about having the name Buzz on my "super accurate" replica and Bill Kelso is no less authentic in a repro. I'm afraid it might be hard to resell if I decided to give it up later.
For $486(if my converter was right), I'd be glad to give it a shot I know without a standard contract to replicate, there is no other reproducer out there to compare this to. Good for a new maker(and kudos for all the work) but possibly troublesome for collectors and those into the finer points of the details - i.e. those in the market for high end repros. This would also ding resale-ability.
The barriers to entry are high when going up against ELC and GW. Any one thing wrong or an overall discomfort with the "un-contract" style and iffy reviews early on could cause trouble getting established.
Sorry to sound like such a tough customer up front but that's what you'll find in this niche I'm afraid.
Any answers to ease my mind are welcomed,
Dave
My other issues, if I may, and excuse me if I missed details in the recent thread, are that this appears to be basically a house brand like the old ELCs where you pick the details from the different contracts you like and put them into one jacket. Some of us want the manufacture to do this according to specific contracts so we have something to compare to. The smorgasbord method leaves inaccuracies to any one contract partly in the buyers hands with nothing else to compare to. ELC's house was like that. There's a collar stand on this one? Well, some had that. The stitching was olive, tan, or white? Well, some had that too. The pockets or collars are too pointy or square? Well, different contractors had all those characteristics. Pockets are too high? Well, look at this vintage shot. Get my point? What characteristics on this version are from what contract and what is the standard held to(collar and pocket shape, etc.)? In a nutshell, if one replaced the Bill Kelso label with another, what would it say?
Also, I've held off on some other's A-2s due to hide variances. Some are way too lightweight, soft, and grainy up front(the Horween I had was like that) and some appear to never grain up even when the finish is wearing off. Some have changed hides over the years so you aren't sure what you'll get. It's a chance to take and hard to tell where "Kelso's" hides will stand in a year or two. I'm not super hip about having the name Buzz on my "super accurate" replica and Bill Kelso is no less authentic in a repro. I'm afraid it might be hard to resell if I decided to give it up later.
For $486(if my converter was right), I'd be glad to give it a shot I know without a standard contract to replicate, there is no other reproducer out there to compare this to. Good for a new maker(and kudos for all the work) but possibly troublesome for collectors and those into the finer points of the details - i.e. those in the market for high end repros. This would also ding resale-ability.
The barriers to entry are high when going up against ELC and GW. Any one thing wrong or an overall discomfort with the "un-contract" style and iffy reviews early on could cause trouble getting established.
Sorry to sound like such a tough customer up front but that's what you'll find in this niche I'm afraid.
Any answers to ease my mind are welcomed,
Dave
dmar836 said:
Sounds like PLATON's Rough Wear replica would be more the jacket for you. Here's the recent thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9344
Well, call me high maintenance, but I would want the nipple snaps and at least a repro Talon. The mini snaps are not uncommon and I have installed them myself. Don't want those on a RW.
My GW was of the Horween and looked awesome and felt even better - ideal for look and not necessarily feel of an original(that was an older GW). My ELC Werber is showing no real grain yet but I quit wearing it as it's a tad too small. HWT might fix it but I hate to risk that if it shrank.
Referring to that thread, the pic of the hide with the rough edge looks a lot like the Horween hides that other makers have used in the past and moved away from. Looks like the top of a brownie before it is even assembled. Superb for a fashion jacket but I want grain to develop due to wear - not manufacture. I still compare period shots and have a heck of a time knowing what an original would have felt/looked like new.
Thanks for the tip and I see the philosophy posted by Platon there. I think I might be a bit too picky and setting myself up for failure.
Sorry to hijack the thread,
Dave
My GW was of the Horween and looked awesome and felt even better - ideal for look and not necessarily feel of an original(that was an older GW). My ELC Werber is showing no real grain yet but I quit wearing it as it's a tad too small. HWT might fix it but I hate to risk that if it shrank.
Referring to that thread, the pic of the hide with the rough edge looks a lot like the Horween hides that other makers have used in the past and moved away from. Looks like the top of a brownie before it is even assembled. Superb for a fashion jacket but I want grain to develop due to wear - not manufacture. I still compare period shots and have a heck of a time knowing what an original would have felt/looked like new.
Thanks for the tip and I see the philosophy posted by Platon there. I think I might be a bit too picky and setting myself up for failure.
Sorry to hijack the thread,
Dave
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hi guys,
The site has not yet been updated with the Rough Wear and it will not be for the next couple of months due to some issues.
I can see that you do not like the house model the purpose of which was to give a mcuh better alternative to US. Auth, G&B, Cockpit and US Wings jackets for those of us who cand spend a fortune on a hi-end repro.
So I guess I am left with two options
Either to discontinue it, or offer it at cheaper price of say EUR 300
The site has not yet been updated with the Rough Wear and it will not be for the next couple of months due to some issues.
I can see that you do not like the house model the purpose of which was to give a mcuh better alternative to US. Auth, G&B, Cockpit and US Wings jackets for those of us who cand spend a fortune on a hi-end repro.
So I guess I am left with two options
Either to discontinue it, or offer it at cheaper price of say EUR 300
Your house model looks just fine.
People on here are picky beyond what is good for them which is why so many jackets do the rounds. frankly, throw three high end high dollar jackets on the ground, add yours at half to 1/3 the price and get someone less anal than us to pick out the odd one out, they wouldnt be able to.
My only problem is that as I have said I dont care for collar stands.
People on here are picky beyond what is good for them which is why so many jackets do the rounds. frankly, throw three high end high dollar jackets on the ground, add yours at half to 1/3 the price and get someone less anal than us to pick out the odd one out, they wouldnt be able to.
My only problem is that as I have said I dont care for collar stands.
Despite my concerns, I think Tim is probably right on this - especially for the price. Then again, on this forum, that type of critique is unavoidable.
I do think they look nice. This is my first "stitch by stitch" nitpick at a repro as it's the first non-contract I've considered.
Hope I didn't turn buyers away.
Dave
I do think they look nice. This is my first "stitch by stitch" nitpick at a repro as it's the first non-contract I've considered.
Hope I didn't turn buyers away.
Dave
A
Anonymous
Guest
Nah, critique is welcome.
I also want my jacket to have all the details right.
The bottom line is the Bill Kelso Rough Wear is the best jacket there is at this price level.
I also want my jacket to have all the details right.
The bottom line is the Bill Kelso Rough Wear is the best jacket there is at this price level.
I absolutely agree that jackets should be authentic and the more so the better but it reaches a point where I despair sometimes at the
'well if it were a true representation of a spunktastic sportswear 267672 contract, the box stitching on the eppaulettes should be 1/4 inch deeper and the knits should be more latte than cappuccino'
attitude.
we are victims of our own impossibly high standards at time. That holy grail mindset means every jacket we score is risking being a hollow victory.
If an A2 looks good it should look good to the naked eye without cuddling the wearer.
Of course I revell in the details, shot for shot next to an original to see how close the repro maker has got it but I would forgive a forensic detail omission if it meant that the collar didnt force my head forward when I was driving, that the forearms didnt cause my fingers to go blue or the narrow shoulders send me to the chiropractor.
I am happy with a heavy, supple jacket that you can be comfortable in. I like russet to be not too red, seal not too purple and I want it to be like leather not a skimmed vinyl and compressed cardboard affair.
contrasting stitching makes me turgid and a correct looking zip will keep me that way. If the label says 'original ww2 contract' or thereabouts then so much the better.
I think the efforts by Platon and fishmeok and diamond dave etc etc are laudible and the chance for the more budget conscious to own something that fills the middle ground between snob end and slob end jackets is fantastic.
'well if it were a true representation of a spunktastic sportswear 267672 contract, the box stitching on the eppaulettes should be 1/4 inch deeper and the knits should be more latte than cappuccino'
attitude.
we are victims of our own impossibly high standards at time. That holy grail mindset means every jacket we score is risking being a hollow victory.
If an A2 looks good it should look good to the naked eye without cuddling the wearer.
Of course I revell in the details, shot for shot next to an original to see how close the repro maker has got it but I would forgive a forensic detail omission if it meant that the collar didnt force my head forward when I was driving, that the forearms didnt cause my fingers to go blue or the narrow shoulders send me to the chiropractor.
I am happy with a heavy, supple jacket that you can be comfortable in. I like russet to be not too red, seal not too purple and I want it to be like leather not a skimmed vinyl and compressed cardboard affair.
contrasting stitching makes me turgid and a correct looking zip will keep me that way. If the label says 'original ww2 contract' or thereabouts then so much the better.
I think the efforts by Platon and fishmeok and diamond dave etc etc are laudible and the chance for the more budget conscious to own something that fills the middle ground between snob end and slob end jackets is fantastic.
MikeyB-17
Well-Known Member
deeb7 said:
If I had a pot to urinate in, I would have bought one by now. For the money, I don't think they can be beat, and the market needs a manufacturer like this. Goodwears are fabulous, John's accuracy is incredible, but I'll never own one. Platon's on the other hand, are within reach-just not right now.
