Willis & Geiger M-444

[Skip]

Not having had much experience with shearling jackets, can anyone verify if this is the real deal, and if so is it a decent price or way over the mark for what it is? Could be me being paranoid but ...

a) seller states had tag but lost it, but can verify its a Willis & Geiger, as he has another jacket the same
b) Apparently there was some damage to the zipper tape so zip has been replaced but retains Talon slider
c) leather appears in decent nick, except the left hand front which seems to be failing down near the zipper. actually that whole piece seems to have much more wear than the right side?
d) from the photos (could just be the angle) but the left hand collar and pocket seem to be lower, if he's replaced the zip I'm just wondering..

If leather is failing in shearling as in point 'c' is it still one you could wear regularly or would you expect it to deteriorate fairly rapidly?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/290833392889 ... 570wt_1156

 

[Peter Graham]

There's something not right there. He says that he lost the label. Those labels don't just fall off. The zipper is a horrible mall jacket job but does not look like a replacement plus the Talon marked slider is not WW2 era. I think it's the original slider from the zipper. The collar looks wrong too. I think it's a modern W&G copy. Even if it were original it's no bargain and Navy shearling has a bad reputation for falling apart. Walk away, quite quickly.

 

[omarco]

i'm no expert but would agree with Peter to walk away at that sort of money.. Have to admit though it looks nice..

 

[Roughwear]

Skip, looking at the pictures of this M-444 naval shearling jacket I would say the zip and the slider are both post War replacements. The shape of the puller and slider are incorrect for the period 1940 to 1942 when the nine M-444 contracts were produced. There were four makers-Willis and Geiger, Monarch, Fried Ostermann and H.L.B. Corp. This one may well be a W&G version and the collar, although worn is quite correct for an M-444 jacket.

The wear by the zip stopper is only to the surface and is common on Wartime shearling jackets. It would make a nice display item but naval shearling jackets are notorious for not holding up to regular wear these days. So unless you want it for display it would be sensible to pass it by.

 

[Skip]

Thank you gentlemen, my gut feeling on this one was uneasy and you've now confirmed my unease. info and advice appreciated and heeded.

 

[m444uk]

An original for sure.

There was a Monarch m-444 on greedbay recently also with a replacement Ykk zip that went for big money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WW-2-US ... 0990525166

 

[Skip]

Saw that one, but the sleeves were an inch short for my elongated shape. That seller seems to have quite a few original navy jackets, and reasonable to deal with.

 

[m444uk]

W&G has a simpler collar arrangement

The Fried Ostermann would be a good jacket for a repro maker to copy. I'm surprised Eastman
have never made an m-444. A small but steady seller I would have thought.

I used to have an original H.L.B but to fragile to wear. Sold it to Ken Calder.

 

[zoomer]

I'm surprised Eastman have never made an m-444. A small but steady seller I would have thought.

They'll never have the mystique of jackets like the B-3 or Irvin, which were used by so many combat units. US Navy fliers in the cold latitudes mostly flew antisub patrols and got very little glory for it.

Ens. Karl Marrs, PB4Y (B-24) pilot with Fleet Air Wing 7, England, 1945.

 

[m444uk]

Joe Kennedy in his m-444

http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/page/27/