What do you look for to determine if knits are replacement?

[BigBrother]

I’m eying a G-1 but have been told the knits are replacements. I’m looking and looking and can’t see the differences (except for maybe single-layer vs tube?)

You guys, unsurprisingly, seem to be able to pick them out very easily. So what are the markers you go for? Color? Pattern? Weave(s)?

I suppose if there’s any sort of guide thread on here, pictorial or otherwise, that would be awesome.

Thanks!

 

[Spitfireace]

Can't tell without a pic to go by.

 

[Skyhawk]

The wrong type for the year is a dead giveaway with G-1's. Bi-Weave vs 2 Ply. The next would be extra stitch holes. If the replacement is done properly, within the same stitch line, it can be hard to see. If you look close, there should be some errant holes. The third way is the color and material.

 

[mulceber]

Honestly, the biggest tell for me is the knits being in pristine condition - no sign of moth nibbles, no fading, not very much stretching. Not really the most reliable way to tell, I know.

 

[Spitfireace]

Up until D series would be bi weave. Then single ply. My 1966 Ralph Edwards has single ply. Everything before that is bi weave.

 

[Spitfireace]

Oh ya there's that G-1 thing that @mulceber and a couple others put together. Awesome reference material.

 

[Spitfireace]

Discussion: “A Better Fighting Garment…” - A Beginner’s Guide to the US Navy’s WWII-era and later Intermediate Flight Jackets

INTRODUCTION There have been various threads on VLJ which have listed the US Navy contracts from the M-422 to G-1 series of leather flying jackets. This thread is an attempt to pool the information into a beginners guide to sit alongside the A-2 contract dates thread as a resource on the Forum...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

 

[Spitfireace]

Honestly, the biggest tell for me is the knits being in pristine condition - no sign of moth nibbles, no fading, not very much stretching. Not really the most reliable way to tell, I know.

Not completely reliable. Sometimes old knits can be in nice shape. Not that much, but possible.

 

[MikeyB-17]

Stitching is often the most obvious-unless it’s been done well, it’s usually easy to see. Ex-military jackets often don’t get reknitted by, or for, people who are that bothered about preserving their historic status-they just want another set of knits so they can keep using the jacket. They’re often not terribly well-stitched, with no attempt to use the original holes, and the shade often doesn’t match if they’re only doing the cuffs and not the waist. The cuffs tend to wear out quicker than the waist and are frequently done separately, and they often aren’t that bothered if they’re not an exact match.

 

[Spitfireace]

My 1941 Monarch has depot wrist knits. Darker than waistband. Period correct as done in theatre.

 

[BigBrother]

Thanks for the info. I wanted to learn the general guidelines, and here are pics of the particular jacket in question:

Now that I know a bit more what to look for, I believe I see multiple stitch holes in the cuffs, but not sure. I didn't think the slight difference in color was enough to rule them replacements, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

Whatever conclusions you draw, please elaborate so I can learn as much as possible about your methods . Thank you so much!!

 

[coolhandluke]

Thanks for the info. I wanted to learn the general guidelines, and here are pics of the particular jacket in question:

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Now that I know a bit more what to look for, I believe I see multiple stitch holes in the cuffs, but not sure. I didn't think the slight difference in color was enough to rule them replacements, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

Whatever conclusions you draw, please elaborate so I can learn as much as possible about your methods . Thank you so much!!

Yes, the sleeve knits have been replaced. Non-matching thread is also a huge indicator.

 

[BigBrother]

Yes, the sleeve knits have been replaced. Non-matching thread is also a huge indicator.

Oh that makes a lot of sense- dark brown vs. golden in this case?

 

[JonnyCrow]

Honestly, the biggest tell for me is the knits being in pristine condition - no sign of moth nibbles, no fading, not very much stretching. Not really the most reliable way to tell, I know.

The M-445a I'm restoring, the knits are just confetti, darn moths, definitely need replacing

 

[MikeyB-17]

Also note, the sleeve knits are a bit darker than the waist. It’s been done well though, and the jacket looks pretty good otherwise, although watch out that they haven’t shortened the arms too much when doing the knits, as I don’t think they’ve used the same holes.

 

[Chandler]

The cuffs look fresh from the box.

 

[BigBrother]

Also note, the sleeve knits are a bit darker than the waist. It’s been done well though, and the jacket looks pretty good otherwise, although watch out that they haven’t shortened the arms too much when doing the knits, as I don’t think they’ve used the same holes.

This one confuses me- from what I can see, the new holes are almost overlapping the old, deviating by what looks like 1mm at the most. That wouldn’t seem to indicate much of a length change at all, unless something else happens here that I should know about.

Thanks!

 

[BigBrother]

The cuffs look fresh from the box.

About this, something I’ve been wondering about- for knit replacement, do people seek out some sort of generic cuffs and waistbands, i.e. are these industry-standard in the garment industry, or is there yet a deeper hole in this world where correct cuffs (repro or original) are sought out? I’ve definitely seen originals on auction on eBay, but not sure what’s usually done. Put another way, 1, are there industry standard sizes and patterns for such things? And 2, are standard ones frowned upon in favor of something more authentic/correct, either repro or original?

 

[Chandler]

About this, something I’ve been wondering about- for knit replacement, do people seek out some sort of generic cuffs and waistbands, i.e. are these industry-standard in the garment industry, or is there yet a deeper hole in this world where correct cuffs (repro or original) are sought out? I’ve definitely seen originals on auction on eBay, but not sure what’s usually done. Put another way, 1, are there industry standard sizes and patterns for such things? And 2, are standard ones frowned upon in favor of something more authentic/correct, either repro or original?

I'm going to let someone more "in the know" reply to the bulk of this query.

All I can tell you is that all of the knit cuffs on my G-1 variants (repros, originals, and replacements) are shorter than the replacements on that Star -- at least as-is. Does breaking them in cause shrinkage (no George memes, please)? Couldn't say.

 

[MikeyB-17]

This one confuses me- from what I can see, the new holes are almost overlapping the old, deviating by what looks like 1mm at the most. That wouldn’t seem to indicate much of a length change at all, unless something else happens here that I should know about.

Thanks!

What I was getting at was that I can’t tell from the pic whether they’ve used the original stitch holes, or used fresh leather by either cutting or folding back the ends. The length of the knits makes me think they might have, but I’m sure there’s somebody here who knows more about this than I do.