Ultra rare Pr-War Aero

[Roughwear]

If anyone is interested a 1940 contract Aero is up for sale in the USA. The jacket is mostly original, but has had a slight make-over in a USAAF depot, where the knits may have been replaced and the lining has been repaired with the USAAF stamp added. The label is worn, but it has all the characteristics of the 40-3785-P contract-collar stand, late 30s Talon zipper, nipple snaps (subsequent Aero contracts had ring snaps and no collar stand) etc. The previous contract (1938) was a more complex animal with stitching above the waistband and the cuffs and had the early rivetted Talon zipper. This jacket has aroused a lot of interest but no bids to date. The seller has now added a reserve. I'm not going for it as I already own a decent example of this very rare contract.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

 

[prostaff4ever]

Andrew,

Do you think this could be a 16160 instead? I can make out a "6" in the spec tag, and the reinforcement stitching in the pocket corners are diagonal and not square/rectangular like the 40-3785 that I have. I've never seen a 16160 in person, so I don't know if it has the ring or ball snaps, but did you see the grouping that has the size 36 40-3785 on Ebay? That jacket looks very similar to this one. What do you think?

George

 

[Mac]

George,

I also think it could be a 16160. If you look at the ebay jacket label you can also make out several numbers before the last hyphen. It looks like it could be the 16160 label, which, as you know, reads

"A.C. CONT.NO.W535ac-16160"

I think I see the 535ac.

The 1940 label, we know, reads

"A.C.ORDER NO.40-3785-P"

Cheers,
Mac

 

[Roughwear]

If it's the 16160 then it is the first one I have seen with nipple snaps (the 16160 had ring snaps) and a late 30s chunky Talon zip. George the pocket corners on my 1940 Aero have diagonal stitching. The label is most certainly from the 16160 contract and it may be a 1940 Aero badged up with the later label at manufacture or during wartime refurbishment. This was not uncommon with Aero contracts. I know who has bought it an will be able to compare it with my 1940 Aero later in the year. Anyway here's the thread on my 1940 Aero.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7687&start=0

 

[Mac]

Good points -- as usual. I recall the double-labeled Aero previously posted (21996 and 15142 labels). Was that one of yours, Andrew?

Mac

PS The ebay jacket sure looks like your 1940, though not as mint.

 

[Roughwear]

Good points -- as usual. I recall the double-labeled Aero previously posted (21996 and 15142 labels). Was that one of yours, Andrew?

Mac

PS The ebay jacket sure looks like your 1940, though not as mint.

No, I think it belonged to Simon, a former member here.

The more I look at this jacket the more I feel there was inconsistencies within and between these two Aero contracts. BTW my Aero has brown thread to attach the label whilst this and the 16160 on Ebay has orange thread.

 

[prostaff4ever]

Yes, I also wondered if Aero didn't mix labels between build lots as well. My 40-3785 has the same zipper, but the pocket reinforcement stitching is definitely rectangular (not even square as on a Werber). I did find a very nice image of a 40-3785 on a Japanese website once and its details matched up identically with mine. But then again, I have a 38-1711-P with a 40-3785 label in the liner. However, that being said, I picked up both the jackets from the same private collector and I suspect there could have been some monkey business, as he probably felt that the 1938 Aero would be more valuable having a label than not, so he may have stolen it from one and put it on the other.

 

[Roughwear]

I know the Aeros you are talking about. I think you are right about the label being switched, especially as the 40 label in the 38 jacket looks like it has been tacked in by hand with yellow thread rather than machine sewn with orange or brown thread.

 

[prostaff4ever]

That's exactly right. I noticed the same thing as well. That gave me reasonable certainty that the unlabeled Aero is a 40, and the details are too distinct on the 38 for it to be anything but. If they both hadn't come from the same collector, then I wouldn't have suspected it. In any case, at first I thought that the 40 was a Werber because of the square reinforcement stitching, but then I was able to put it all together. It's interesting that Aero changed that detail on the 40 from mine to yours.

 

[Roughwear]

It seems that the during the production run of the 16160 jacket Aero may have changed some of the details with perhaaps the earlier ones having nipple snaps like the 1940 Aero and the later ones the ring snaps as found on subsequent contracts. John Chapman's repro of this contract has ring snaps. I'm not sure which type was more typical for this contract. Other makers, such a Cable and Spiewak used either nipple or ring snaps in the same contract. I guess they used whatever snaps were available. According to John Chapman the USAAC and subsequent USAAF sourced the materials for A2 jackets. I'm not sure how extensive this was and whether some of the longer established makers did this themselves.

 

[prostaff4ever]

I think that's a reasonable explanation. There are just so few jackets remaining of any particular contract that we have to make conclusions based upon very small sample sets. I guess that's why these forums are so cool in that collectively we can compare notes to form much better conclusions. I can't believe I wasn't a member of VLJ earlier, when I was much more active in acquiring. I guess the upside is that I spent less money than if I had been a member during that time. There would have been even more temptations.