-
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
UK based painted patch maker
- Thread starter robrinay
- Start date
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Very nice work, the patch posted is very similar to a regular design I use in several variations. Not actually my idea as I got it from an embroidered patch long ago, but these AVG tribute patches are very popular. I don't have an actual problem with something like this, most of the world simply doesn't care about the super dead on accurate details a stickler from this forum is concerned about. We are the minority here. I'm just happy the the attraction of decorated A-2's continues to intrigue others and maintain this cottage industry for many of us.
Getting back, this guy does some serious quality work with the shading and highlights. I started with painting many years ago only to see countless guys pop up out of nowhere to start painting Squadron Patches once the paint pen was invented. Before you knew it, painted patches were a dime a dozen. But this guy separates himself from most with obvious talent. Gotta have something different and unique when producing patches or you're just trading dollars as opposed to making money. Using artistic license to create tribute designs and special techniques like tooling may not be completely historically accurate but are the traditional methods used to create them. For instance, I make several patches in multi-piece leather that just were not done that way, but who really cares? A2 jackets were never tailored to fit either.
Getting back, this guy does some serious quality work with the shading and highlights. I started with painting many years ago only to see countless guys pop up out of nowhere to start painting Squadron Patches once the paint pen was invented. Before you knew it, painted patches were a dime a dozen. But this guy separates himself from most with obvious talent. Gotta have something different and unique when producing patches or you're just trading dollars as opposed to making money. Using artistic license to create tribute designs and special techniques like tooling may not be completely historically accurate but are the traditional methods used to create them. For instance, I make several patches in multi-piece leather that just were not done that way, but who really cares? A2 jackets were never tailored to fit either.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
CBI said:
I think you're right, have that book somewhere. And the art deco AVG within the China Sun on a Flight suit is a great seller as well.
6148th T.C.Squadron
Member
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Joshs-Fl ... 2811500641 Josh is pretty good, you might want to give a look.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
I'd like to retract almost every good thing I had to say about this patch maker. He obviously has enough talent to paint what he sees and is proficient with a paint brush. However, after talking to my partner Jim ( jbmilart here on the forum ) This guy is copying his patches. Jim modifies existing designs a little here and there to make them his own, and out of respect for the original artists. His 603rd BS for instance has some details specific to Jim alone, the bomb in Pegleg Petes mouth was re-designed to name just one. Jim also uses an 11 O'clock light source to determine where his own added highlights will be on most of his patches. In addition to offering some of the exact very obscure and non-typical patches that Jim has done custom and displays on our web site, this guy has managed to replicate his works in every way. Imitation being the sincerest of flattery, Jim is reluctant to say much at all and he almost justifies it this way. I on the other hand think this guy should at the very least tweak his work just a bit so it is not so obvious.
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
The only place the never belongs here is "you never know" and "Never say never" I do respect your knowledge but we see that these guys were goofing around with insignia back then and have little photographic evidence to go by. Official decal on a suitcase, AVG and China Sun inked on a flight suit, and a hand painted tiger over sun on a jacket. How do we know for sure nothing else was done? All in good fun this is, and in good fun to be a little optimistic and say "It's possible" I've had customers ask about the authenticity of some of my tribute patches and I give the the straight skinny, "it was used on a flight suit" or "Multi-piece leather patches were typical in this theater of operations" So in the interest of good fun and good business, that's my story and I'm stickin to it 
Now getting back on topic, what do we think of this patch maker now? Is it ok for this guy to copy Jim's work line for line, highlight for highlight? Have to say that his pin up looks good and he's got what it takes, but there is no doubt that he has entered our web site and copied the photos. Jim is too nice a guy for confrontation, but I on the other hand call it what it is and I say "not cool" Essentially we patch makers are replicating art from other artists of the 1940's, but there is usually the element of a personal touch or something that deviates from the exact original. All of my multi-piece designs are modified to work as separate layers of color and the shapes are changed enough to make it work as they are stacked.
Here's a rough copy of my 23rd FG patch by someone in Japan. It's obvious to me that my design was used as just a short cut and the reason I'm not too irritated over the whole thing. The design that I came up with was only based on the official 23rd FG, and all components are of my own hand carefully designed to work with each other as a whole and offer the best features without being obstructed by another component. Sounds a little complicated but true. If careful thought is not put into the design you'll end up cutting out the point of a lightning bolt or something unintentional in the end. This copy of my patch is not as precise and sharp and I believe due to the restrictions of the thick leather used, but he was able to use my proportions and complete the design.
Japanese copy
Mine
Now getting back on topic, what do we think of this patch maker now? Is it ok for this guy to copy Jim's work line for line, highlight for highlight? Have to say that his pin up looks good and he's got what it takes, but there is no doubt that he has entered our web site and copied the photos. Jim is too nice a guy for confrontation, but I on the other hand call it what it is and I say "not cool" Essentially we patch makers are replicating art from other artists of the 1940's, but there is usually the element of a personal touch or something that deviates from the exact original. All of my multi-piece designs are modified to work as separate layers of color and the shapes are changed enough to make it work as they are stacked.
Here's a rough copy of my 23rd FG patch by someone in Japan. It's obvious to me that my design was used as just a short cut and the reason I'm not too irritated over the whole thing. The design that I came up with was only based on the official 23rd FG, and all components are of my own hand carefully designed to work with each other as a whole and offer the best features without being obstructed by another component. Sounds a little complicated but true. If careful thought is not put into the design you'll end up cutting out the point of a lightning bolt or something unintentional in the end. This copy of my patch is not as precise and sharp and I believe due to the restrictions of the thick leather used, but he was able to use my proportions and complete the design.
Japanese copy
Mine
I say never because nobody has ever owned one, handled one, seen one or photographed one, and no AVG vet has said they wore one. The closest we got was the 'Bolster' A-2 (below) ... perhaps...maybe put together late war. If one subscribes to the 'it's possible' philosophy, then it leads us to speculate that all kinds of things might have existed when there's no evidence to suggest they did. I've no problem with fantasy AVG pieces but to claim they're authentic is simply misleading.
Interesting 23rds. All just done in the interest of good fun and good business...
Let me know how it's going with the piece I photographed last year.
http://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/...Product_Code=z99avga90000&Category_Code=02AVG
Interesting 23rds. All just done in the interest of good fun and good business...
Let me know how it's going with the piece I photographed last year.
http://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/...Product_Code=z99avga90000&Category_Code=02AVG
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
JDAM said:
Again, we are the minority here, the very few who care about such details. If "one" of the majority subscribes to the "it's possible" philosophy, then it does not lead "us" to speculate anything. And just because so far, nobody has every owned, handled one, seen one, or photographed one that we know of, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Without the single photo of the guy painting the tiger over sun on the jacket, I'll bet we'd maintain that design was never used.
And I don't think it's misleading to say this particular design was used, and insignia from that theater were painted on leather, directly on jackets, and constructed of multi-piece leather. On the other hand, to say that the relatively few existing photos and recollections of the period is all that ever was is a little too rigid for me.
Ten years ago the experts would tell you cowhide was never used to make A2's. I was told that multi-piece leather patches were never used in the ETO. So if and when some day in the future an AVG grouping pops up to prove everyone wrong, at least I can say I never said never. Bottom line is that nobody knows all there is to know and anything is possible.
The piece you photographed for me last year is still just a photo, I hope to make it in patch form soon once I find an accurate enough gold foil leather.
So now getting back on topic, anyone's thoughts about this guy copying Jim line for line from our website? Should I say anything to him?
Peter Graham
Well-Known Member
Damn right you should. I know it's not a copyright issue but tell him to develop his own ideas and stop stealing other peoples style.a2jacketpatches said:
6148th T.C.Squadron
Member
Might be good to get it off your friends back, but will this person even care?
a2jacketpatches
Active Member
Peter Graham said:
I will just for the principle of this matter, you are dead on with my thoughts that he should develop his own style. He's got the talent for sure and I will probably approach this in a constructive way. Wouldn't be too hard for him to put his own little twist on things. Jim is too reserved to do much about it and I'm trying to let that rub off on me a bit, but I just can't help but defend our fort. So in the interest of maintaining Jim's cool, calm and collected mannerisms, I will do the same. Maybe a compliment as to how accurately he reproduces Jim.
6148th T.C.Squadron
Member
https://www.facebook.com/A2painting?fref=nf looks like this guy expanded his business.
