The USN jacket “paint” thing

[Nickb123]

Guys,

This has been on my mind. We’ve owned/seen white paint on our USN jackets. Go on an auction site now and you’ll probably find an example.

So far the theories are: postwar housework, or brushing against wet paint on a ship. For a second I thought it could be the work of sloppy stenciling, but only a few contracts have the white USN stencil.

I even recall some cloth jackets having this.

What can it be? I looked at my Werber 7823 the other day - and thought, what if it’s not paint at all? Could it be some kind of reaction to the tanning? Perhaps when combined w the salty air or age? Remember, they likely used a lot of different chemicals then that are no longer present in today’s repros.

Can’t speak to the cloth jackets (someone here mentioned one of theirs having the white paint marks), but really…having a hard time believing there would be such a high frequency of jackets displaying the after effects of house painting.

Can Gary forensically examine the paint?

Thoughts? Show your examples if you’d like!

 

[Nickb123]

Werber 7823 (in fairness this one does have a faint white squadron stenciling on back)

Foster 55J14:

 

[B-Man2]

Nick
Interesting question, my thoughts:
All the WWII USN M-422 and 422A’s were made from Goat. I’m not sure that the tanning processes of that period for goat jackets were any different for USN jackets than the USAAF A2’s made from goat. So if that’s true, then why wouldn’t the USAAF jackets used in the Pacific Theater of Operations jackets turn as well . The salt air would also have been a factor on those USAAF pilots flying off of those islands as well. Just venturing an opinion

 

[Nickb123]

Nick
Interesting question, my thoughts:
All the WWII USN M-422 and 422A’s were made from Goat. I’m not sure that the tanning processes of that period for goat were any different for USN jackets than the USAAF A2’s . So if that’s true, then why wouldn’t the USAAF jackets used in the Pacific Theater of Operations jackets turn as well . The salt air would also have been a factor on those USAAF pilots flying off of those islands as well. Just venturing an opinion

Maybe it’s just a goat thing? I’d be interested to see if any 18091s or Donigers, etc. display these marks. Unlikely but who knows!

Maybe we could locate some 40s-50s civilian examples to possibly rule out the ship thing? Perhaps it’s unique to seal/dark seal only?

 

[B-Man2]

Maybe it’s just a goat thing? I’d be interested to see if any 18091s or Donigers, etc. display these marks. Unlikely but who knows!

Maybe we could locate some 40s-50s civilian examples to possibly rule out the ship thing? Perhaps it’s unique to seal/dark seal only?

There are definitely examples of A2’s both goat and horse from WWII with white paint on them . The archives of VLJ will turn up several of them and if I remember correctly there were discussions about that topic years ago , but I think the consensus was that a lot of the USAAF guys were involved in construction when they returned home due to the large amounts of houses being built after the war during the “Baby boomer years”

 

[mulceber]

Just to throw this out there, but the RW 18091 contract is prone to darkening in some odd, blotchy ways, which could be something similar to what Nick is suggesting. That being said, I'm more inclined to believe the splotches that look like paint are mostly just paint.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Jan that jacket is a beauty. Beside the paint question, that example show how a pretty plain brown skin can develop patina over time.

Sorry for adding noise to the initial signal.... cant stay quiet when something that nice is posted....

D

 

[mulceber]

Jan that jacket is a beauty. Beside the paint question, that example show how a pretty plain brown skin can develop patina over time.

Sorry for adding noise to the initial signal.... cant stay quiet when something that nice is posted....

D

2 jackets in fact. The first belongs to @Wz1999, while the other belongs (used to belong?) to @Silver Surfer.

 

[Dany McDonald]

I know, was referring to the back side at first... But the front is also super nice... was a quick post...

 

[ZuZu]

Guys,

This has been on my mind. We’ve owned/seen white paint on our USN jackets. Go on an auction site now and you’ll probably find an example.

So far the theories are: postwar housework, or brushing against wet paint on a ship. For a second I thought it could be the work of sloppy stenciling, but only a few contracts have the white USN stencil.

I even recall some cloth jackets having this.

What can it be? I looked at my Werber 7823 the other day - and thought, what if it’s not paint at all? Could it be some kind of reaction to the tanning? Perhaps when combined w the salty air or age? Remember, they likely used a lot of different chemicals then that are no longer present in today’s repros.

Can’t speak to the cloth jackets (someone here mentioned one of theirs having the white paint marks), but really…having a hard time believing there would be such a high frequency of jackets displaying the after effects of house painting.

Can Gary forensically examine the paint?

Thoughts? Show your examples if you’d like!

It's hard to believe but having been born 10 years after the fact (WW2) and been there as the continuum went from old smelly jacket to precious historical artifact I would say 95+% of the paint and other flaws we see come from using these jackets to do chores and housework. People just didn't care for 30 or so years after the war what happened to these things. I can't tell you how many times I heard the "My wife threw out my stuff during spring cleaning one year or...My wife made me get rid of my jacket because it was smelly..." etc. etc. story while I worked at the VA. Painting the garage, working under the car, feeding the cows, fishing, everything which could possibly stain or ruin a jacket.

It is a mystery how the paint in your example Nick got to such weird spots but I'm pretty sure it's paint. From painting the garage...

BTW paint from the 1950s was no joke- you should probably get it tested for lead!

 

[ZuZu]

The Vietnam stuff is just now reaching that critical preciousness mass. I used a friend of mine's OD uniforms as work clothes regularly, ruined them all. I used an N-1 jacket thoughout the 80s and 90s as my carpenter jacket.

 

[ZuZu]

In SF I used to see bums wearing brand new WW2 sheepskin clothing- I believed then that they got it from the Salvation Army or from some charity that had them donated from the military. As a kid I remember playing army with people's dads WW2 stuff- $10,000 (now) SS daggers and all. Hippies wore WW2 A-2s and sheepskin mercilessly.

 

[Micawber]

It's hard to believe but having been born 10 years after the fact (WW2) and been there as the continuum went from old smelly jacket to precious historical artifact I would say 95+% of the paint and other flaws we see come from using these jackets to do chores and housework. People just didn't care for 30 or so years after the war what happened to these things. I can't tell you how many times I heard the "My wife threw out my stuff during spring cleaning one year or...My wife made me get rid of my jacket because it was smelly..." etc. etc. story while I worked at the VA. Painting the garage, working under the car, feeding the cows, fishing, everything which could possibly stain or ruin a jacket.

It is a mystery how the paint in your example Nick got to such weird spots but I'm pretty sure it's paint. From painting the garage...

BTW paint from the 1950s was no joke- you should probably get it tested for lead!

I agree with all of this. This stuff was virtually worthless for years and as such was worn and worn out often doing tasks that required some protection to the garments underneath. Military surplus was, and still is, cheap and cheerful work clothing. I've owned WW2 jackets that were looked upon as coveralls in the postwar years. One example that comes to mind is a B-10 that was given to a sweetheart over here in England who then wore it for gardening, painting and decorating around the house.
As an aside the woodwork in my centuries old farmhouse is plastered in layers of lead based paint. I have no intention of chewing it of sanding it so it stays, as does the old lead paint on umpteen other items around here.

 

[B-Man2]

In SF I used to see bums wearing brand new WW2 sheepskin clothing- I believed then that they got it from the Salvation Army or from some charity that had them donated from the military. As a kid I remember playing army with people's dads WW2 stuff- $10,000 (now) SS daggers and all. Hippies wore WW2 A-2s and sheepskin mercilessly.

It’s true … I grew up a few years before you but you’re spot on . Military clothing and souvenirs could be found every couple of weeks on trash day, just sitting by the curb . Old jackets , uniforms and helmets were always pulled out of the trash by my buddies and I . As far as paint on jackets goes, I remember a lot of my dads friends wearing WWII jackets doing construction or repairing cars in them. It was no big deal to see them being worn while lying in the street trying to change that muffler or changing your own oil.

 

[ZuZu]

I think us old guys hikacked the thread! Sorry!

 

[B-Man2]

Yeah Zu … My apologies as well .

 

[mulceber]

Every time I hear these stories from the "old guys" (), I know exactly where I'd go if I had a time machine. Screw the Library of Alexandria or the original performances of Shakespeare's plays. I want to visit mid-century suburbia on trash day!

 

[ZuZu]

Every time I hear these stories from the "old guys" (), I know exactly where I'd go if I had a time machine. Screw the Library of Alexandria or the original performances of Shakespeare's plays. I want to visit mid-century suburbia on trash day!

Or just a 1960s surplus store.

 

[ZuZu]

It’s true … I grew up a few years before you but you’re spot on . Military clothing and souvenirs could be found every couple of weeks on trash day, just sitting by the curb . Old jackets , uniforms and helmets were always pulled out of the trash by my buddies and I . As far as paint on jackets goes, I remember a lot of my dads friends wearing WWII jackets doing construction or repairing cars in them. It was no big deal to see them being worn while lying in the street trying to change that muffler or changing your own oil.

I never witnessed this because I grew up as an expat in Bogota, Colombia. What I did see was all the WW2 stuff my Dad's coworkers and buddies had. They were all current American military or ex-GIs working for the Rockefeller Foundation down there. Many were pilots working for oil companies. A boisterous bunch!

 

[Chandler]

Every time I hear these stories from the "old guys" (), I know exactly where I'd go if I had a time machine. Screw the Library of Alexandria or the original performances of Shakespeare's plays. I want to visit mid-century suburbia on trash day!

Nah, going back to the late '30s and early '40s and buying a fistful of comic books!