The end of an era?

[WingAndaPrayer]

It looks like these forts might be grounded for some time. Maybe permanently. What’s everyone’s opinion about this matter?

New FAA Airworthiness Directive likely to affect all B-17s - Pilot

ABOVE: B-17G Yankee Lady is currently grounded due to issues with wing mounts The FAA is expected to issue a mandatory Airworthiness Directive (AD) within the coming weeks to address Boeing B-17 wing mounts. Pre-empting a directive that could ground all B-17s, the Michigan-based Yankee Air...

pilotweb.aero

 

[ZuZu]

To be honest it doen't affect my life much anymore- 20 years ago I would have been upset- the thought that these old birds were still flying was pretty cool.

One thing I always found a bit bothersome was how shiny and newlooking they always presented these planes- as far as I know there weren't any shiny OD planes in WW2. They were usually mottled messed up flat OD- a totally different look. I wish there had been a Good Wear of plane restorers who tried to make the planes look as they actually were!

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, it's sad, but I get it. I would have liked to go up in one someday, but I can't really blame them for saying that 80-year old planes are at this point only fit to be museum floor models.

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

To be honest it doen't affect my life much anymore- 20 years ago I would have been upset- the thought that these old birds were still flying was pretty cool.

One thing I always found a bit bothersome was how shiny and newlooking they always presented these planes- as far as I know there weren't any shiny OD planes in WW2. They were usually mottled messed up flat OD- a totally different look. I wish there had been a Good Wear of plane restorers who tried to make the planes look as they actually were!

The crowds want shiny new looking I think. I’m of the opinion they shouldn’t fly them. There’s too old and too valuable as historical items to risk.

 

[Micawber]

Fact is these things were never designed to last 80 years of use and require a constant cycle of inspection, maintenance, and replacement sometimes of major components. Anything is possible given the will, time, effort... and money! The RAF BoB Flight Lanc PA474 had a complete spar replacement in recent years but it was a huge and time consuming endeavour.

 

[Pa12]

It looks like these forts might be grounded for some time. Maybe permanently. What’s everyone’s opinion about this matter?

New FAA Airworthiness Directive likely to affect all B-17s - Pilot

ABOVE: B-17G Yankee Lady is currently grounded due to issues with wing mounts The FAA is expected to issue a mandatory Airworthiness Directive (AD) within the coming weeks to address Boeing B-17 wing mounts. Pre-empting a directive that could ground all B-17s, the Michigan-based Yankee Air...

pilotweb.aero

Similar airworthiness directive came out on the dc-3. About 40 years ago

 

[Pa12]

Fact is these things were never designed to last 80 years of use and require a constant cycle of inspection, maintenance, and replacement sometimes of major components. Anything is possible given the will, time, effort... and money! The RAF BoB Flight Lanc PA474 had a complete spar replacement in recent years but it was a huge and time consuming endeavour.

Exactly. Every part of an aircraft can be replaced if you want to spend the money on it. Unavailable parts can be manufactured .

 

[Pa12]

My own aircraft is 77 years old

 

[ZuZu]

DC3s still going strong:

The future is bright for the DC-3 | Flightradar24 Blog

The DC-3 is one of the finest aircraft ever made, but it's pushing 80+ years old. New BT-67 turbo versions may continue to fly for decades to come.

www.flightradar24.com

 

[Pa12]

Yep, though a few succumbed to the spar AD. These AD’s usually come about from grossly neglected aircraft and components. Happened on the Grumman mallard after the chalks incident when they lost a wing. Heavy corrosion from the salt water ops. I was looking after a mallard at the time and had to do the inspection. It was fine of course as it had never operated in salt water.

 

[MauldinFan]

There's a group of B17 owners who share resources. For example, several years ago, they all went in on molds for new clear nose glass molds. It won't be long until they go all in on new components to fix this issue. There's too much money tied up in a flyable B-17 that only needs a few tough-to-get parts to keep it back in the air.
All that said, there have been FOUR previously-flyable B-17s completely destroyed since 1989, three of which since 2011. The last two had several fatalities each. Three of the losses were either caused by questionable maintenance issues or poor coordination/flying.
Sure, there are plenty of B-17s in museums, so I can't imagine a time where there won't be one to see somewhere, but there have been so many warbird crashes in recent years, you really have to wonder about flying them. People seem to forget that those planes originally were expendable line items. None were expected to last this long and countless ones crashed in accidents or due to poor maintenance.

 

[Pa12]

There's a group of B17 owners who share resources. For example, several years ago, they all went in on molds for new clear nose glass molds. It won't be long until they go all in on new components to fix this issue. There's too much money tied up in a flyable B-17 that only needs a few tough-to-get parts to keep it back in the air.
All that said, there have been FOUR previously-flyable B-17s completely destroyed since 1989, three of which since 2011. The last two had several fatalities each. Three of the losses were either caused by questionable maintenance issues or poor coordination/flying.
Sure, there are plenty of B-17s in museums, so I can't imagine a time where there won't be one to see somewhere, but there have been so many warbird crashes in recent years, you really have to wonder about flying them. People seem to forget that those planes originally were expendable line items. None were expected to last this long and countless ones crashed in accidents or due to poor maintenance.

Flying them is generally for the wealthy. And we all know some people have more money then brains

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

More on the grounding of the US fort fleet

New B-17 Wing AD Effective June 1, 2023 - Aero Vintage Books

A detailed look at the FAA Airworthiness Directive effective on June 1, 2023, that applies to all airworthy U.S. registered B-17s.

www.aerovintage.com

 

[Rutger]

Quite ominous.

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

I really think this is the first domino to fall on the matter of grounding them permanently.

 

[Silver Surfer]

soooo.......with new types of fabrication, computers, ai, etc, you have to wonder if it is feasible to actually make reproductions of war birds. just about every day we move closer and closer to automated fabrication. send in the clones. amazing and scary at the same time.

 

[Chandler]

soooo.......with new types of fabrication, computers, ai, etc, you have to wonder if it is feasible to actually make reproductions of war birds.

Digital printers?

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

soooo.......with new types of fabrication, computers, ai, etc, you have to wonder if it is feasible to actually make reproductions of war birds. just about every day we move closer and closer to automated fabrication. send in the clones. amazing and scary at the same time.

The article said the wing spar has been an issue for going on 40 years now. I’m amazed they haven’t been grounded sooner and permanently. But yeah, some amazing new technology might remedy this situation. But then what other age related problems will pop up? If you keep using fabricated parts on it until it’s been replaced down to the last rivet, it it even a historical plane anymore?

 

[Pa12]

I’ve restored many old aircraft, cars , bikes and a couple boats. Anything can be done if you want to throw enough money at it. Peter Jackson’s outfit in New Zealand is building ww1 engine from scratch. And a lot of this old stuff still has original engineering drawings still around. The next generation will have to be even more wealthy to play with this stuff.

 

[Micawber]

I’ve restored many old aircraft, cars , bikes and a couple boats. Anything can be done if you want to throw enough money at it. Peter Jackson’s outfit in New Zealand is building ww1 engine from scratch. And a lot of this old stuff still has original engineering drawings still around. The next generation will have to be even more wealthy to play with this stuff.

Indeed. Frankly every effort should be made, and no expense spared, to ensure keeping 80 year old lumps of metal in the sky is done with the the safety of public, crew and any passengers is the prime objective.