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The end of an era?

WingAndaPrayer

Well-Known Member
It looks like these forts might be grounded for some time. Maybe permanently. What’s everyone’s opinion about this matter?

 

ZuZu

Well-Known Member
To be honest it doen't affect my life much anymore- 20 years ago I would have been upset- the thought that these old birds were still flying was pretty cool.

One thing I always found a bit bothersome was how shiny and newlooking they always presented these planes- as far as I know there weren't any shiny OD planes in WW2. They were usually mottled messed up flat OD- a totally different look. I wish there had been a Good Wear of plane restorers who tried to make the planes look as they actually were!
 

WingAndaPrayer

Well-Known Member
To be honest it doen't affect my life much anymore- 20 years ago I would have been upset- the thought that these old birds were still flying was pretty cool.

One thing I always found a bit bothersome was how shiny and newlooking they always presented these planes- as far as I know there weren't any shiny OD planes in WW2. They were usually mottled messed up flat OD- a totally different look. I wish there had been a Good Wear of plane restorers who tried to make the planes look as they actually were!
The crowds want shiny new looking I think. I’m of the opinion they shouldn’t fly them. There’s too old and too valuable as historical items to risk.
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
Fact is these things were never designed to last 80 years of use and require a constant cycle of inspection, maintenance, and replacement sometimes of major components. Anything is possible given the will, time, effort... and money! The RAF BoB Flight Lanc PA474 had a complete spar replacement in recent years but it was a huge and time consuming endeavour.
 

Pa12

Well-Known Member
It looks like these forts might be grounded for some time. Maybe permanently. What’s everyone’s opinion about this matter?

Similar airworthiness directive came out on the dc-3. About 40 years ago;)
 

Pa12

Well-Known Member
Fact is these things were never designed to last 80 years of use and require a constant cycle of inspection, maintenance, and replacement sometimes of major components. Anything is possible given the will, time, effort... and money! The RAF BoB Flight Lanc PA474 had a complete spar replacement in recent years but it was a huge and time consuming endeavour.
Exactly. Every part of an aircraft can be replaced if you want to spend the money on it. Unavailable parts can be manufactured .
 

Pa12

Well-Known Member
Yep, though a few succumbed to the spar AD. These AD’s usually come about from grossly neglected aircraft and components. Happened on the Grumman mallard after the chalks incident when they lost a wing. Heavy corrosion from the salt water ops. I was looking after a mallard at the time and had to do the inspection. It was fine of course as it had never operated in salt water.
 

MauldinFan

Well-Known Member
There's a group of B17 owners who share resources. For example, several years ago, they all went in on molds for new clear nose glass molds. It won't be long until they go all in on new components to fix this issue. There's too much money tied up in a flyable B-17 that only needs a few tough-to-get parts to keep it back in the air.
All that said, there have been FOUR previously-flyable B-17s completely destroyed since 1989, three of which since 2011. The last two had several fatalities each. Three of the losses were either caused by questionable maintenance issues or poor coordination/flying.
Sure, there are plenty of B-17s in museums, so I can't imagine a time where there won't be one to see somewhere, but there have been so many warbird crashes in recent years, you really have to wonder about flying them. People seem to forget that those planes originally were expendable line items. None were expected to last this long and countless ones crashed in accidents or due to poor maintenance.
 

Pa12

Well-Known Member
There's a group of B17 owners who share resources. For example, several years ago, they all went in on molds for new clear nose glass molds. It won't be long until they go all in on new components to fix this issue. There's too much money tied up in a flyable B-17 that only needs a few tough-to-get parts to keep it back in the air.
All that said, there have been FOUR previously-flyable B-17s completely destroyed since 1989, three of which since 2011. The last two had several fatalities each. Three of the losses were either caused by questionable maintenance issues or poor coordination/flying.
Sure, there are plenty of B-17s in museums, so I can't imagine a time where there won't be one to see somewhere, but there have been so many warbird crashes in recent years, you really have to wonder about flying them. People seem to forget that those planes originally were expendable line items. None were expected to last this long and countless ones crashed in accidents or due to poor maintenance.
Flying them is generally for the wealthy. And we all know some people have more money then brains;)
 

Silver Surfer

Well-Known Member
soooo.......with new types of fabrication, computers, ai, etc, you have to wonder if it is feasible to actually make reproductions of war birds. just about every day we move closer and closer to automated fabrication. send in the clones. amazing and scary at the same time.
 

WingAndaPrayer

Well-Known Member
soooo.......with new types of fabrication, computers, ai, etc, you have to wonder if it is feasible to actually make reproductions of war birds. just about every day we move closer and closer to automated fabrication. send in the clones. amazing and scary at the same time.
The article said the wing spar has been an issue for going on 40 years now. I’m amazed they haven’t been grounded sooner and permanently. But yeah, some amazing new technology might remedy this situation. But then what other age related problems will pop up? If you keep using fabricated parts on it until it’s been replaced down to the last rivet, it it even a historical plane anymore?
 

Pa12

Well-Known Member
I’ve restored many old aircraft, cars , bikes and a couple boats. Anything can be done if you want to throw enough money at it. Peter Jackson’s outfit in New Zealand is building ww1 engine from scratch. And a lot of this old stuff still has original engineering drawings still around. The next generation will have to be even more wealthy to play with this stuff.
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
I’ve restored many old aircraft, cars , bikes and a couple boats. Anything can be done if you want to throw enough money at it. Peter Jackson’s outfit in New Zealand is building ww1 engine from scratch. And a lot of this old stuff still has original engineering drawings still around. The next generation will have to be even more wealthy to play with this stuff.

Indeed. Frankly every effort should be made, and no expense spared, to ensure keeping 80 year old lumps of metal in the sky is done with the the safety of public, crew and any passengers is the prime objective.
 
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