Rare blue B-15C with olive wrist knits

[Weasel_Loader]

Aviationetc is selling a nice B-15C with olive wrist knits. He's got a bunch more original B-15Cs and N-2As. All of them overpriced IMO. One of the B-15Cs does look to be in mint condition.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-15c-Rare-...aultDomain_0&hash=item4842d3bdac#ht_908wt_977

 

[deeb7]

Full Gear notes that the Albert Turner contract was known for its faded knits ... but I ain't paying $1300 for an example in a size 36.

 

[Stony]

All of them overpriced IMO.

They have a lot of overpriced jackets for sale on the bay and they'll probably end up married to most of them. Nice jackets, but not at those prices.

 

[asiamiles]

Full Gear notes that the Albert Turner contract was known for its faded knits

And clearly that's what those are, not green ones.

 

[Tim P]

agreed.

I have a particular dislike for aviation dealers who place themselves on a higher level of existence than militaria dealers and charge scores for a bit of wire and a plug, hundreds for liner garments and gloves and thousands for jackets and boots.

Invariably it comes with the sort of description that caviar sellers might use to punt their wares. Essentially to get the wealthy to believe that their overpricing is justified by the quality of the garment (its surplus, they havent had it made at their own expense) or its wear by some jet age icon giving it some kind of quasi religious relic status.

Google the patch and suddenly the jacket is 'researched'.

You visit their websites from time to time and wonder how, with a perennially static inventory of dusty overpriced oxygen masks, clips, unserviceable mae wests and so on, they ever get to make a buck.

Oh, and trawling through pages of un-archived crap that has a big SOLD sticker next to it is not conducive to online shopping.

 

[rich]

Full Gear notes that the Albert Turner contract was known for its faded knits ... but I ain't paying $1300 for an example in a size 36.

Could you bring yourself to part with that for a nylon jacket in any size Deeb .......... don't think I could do it somehow (GB£820)
Mind you, the way Buzz Rickson's are going.............

 

[kevlarg]

Dumbo on the patch looks like he pooped that parachute...

 

[RCSignals]

what's to say that jacket came with those sage coloured wrist knits?

 

[deeb7]

what's to say that jacket came with those sage coloured wrist knits?

They're faded, but to prove it, someone would have to come up with the $1295, unpick some stitching, and expose the original blue wool under the nylon.

As already indicated ... it isn't going to be me.

 

[RCSignals]

ha ha Me either

I suppose it is possible for blue to fade to that colour, but to me it looks more like it started as a brown-green.

 

[asiamiles]

I suppose it is possible for blue to fade to that colour, but to me it looks more like it started as a brown-green.

Really? I think you can still see remnants of the blue dye on the cuffs.

 

[RCSignals]

Is it remnant of blue or remnant of brown? On my screen it's not too blue.
The waist knit is certainly blue.

 

[watchmanjimg]

I've always felt that the whole blue nylon/green knits theory is one part legitimate but relatively uncommon unit-repair scenario, one part Japanese marketing fantasy, and one part wishful thinking on the part of collectors. That said, I once owned an N-2A with mild purplish fading to the nylon on the lower portion of both sleeves. A friend who is a retired USN aircrewman advised me that this condition can stem from the vapors released during the taking of aircraft fuel samples. It isn't hard to imagine this getting worse with continued exposure to any number of stimuli, be it fuel vapor, sun, something in the perspiration of the wearer, et cetera.

In any case, the cuffs on this particular jacket had better be 24K gold-plated to justify its inflated price. :lol:

 

[Atticus]

I agree. I think that many, if not most, of the green knits we see on blue nylon jackets were period repairs. As I've posted before, my N-2A came to me with old, sage knits. They were clearly put there when the original blue knits wore out...and I'm almost positive they were put there when the jacket was still in service.

My main problem with the fade theory comes from this period photograph. When it was taken, the L-2A on the right must have only been two or three years old. It just seems doubtful that the dye in this jacket's knits was so unstable that the knits all faded to green during the short life of this jacket. I guess it could happen, but I would be less skeptical about faded knits on a twenty...or fifty...year old jacket.

AF

 

[deeb7]

I agree. I think that many, if not most, of the green knits we see on blue nylon jackets were period repairs. As I've posted before, my N-2A came to me with old, sage knits. They were clearly put there when the original blue knits wore out...and I'm almost positive they were put there when the jacket was still in service.

Isn't that a different scenario, in that the sage cuffs were replacements, and the waistband was still the original blue?

 

[watchmanjimg]

I agree. I think that many, if not most, of the green knits we see on blue nylon jackets were period repairs. As I've posted before, my N-2A came to me with old, sage knits. They were clearly put there when the original blue knits wore out...and I'm almost positive they were put there when the jacket was still in service.

Isn't that a different scenario, in that the sage cuffs were replacements, and the waistband was still the original blue?

It's absolutely a different scenario, and we have ample evidence of the heavy zone blue jackets being worn well into the 1960s when sage jackets were standard issue. Thus, it's entirely plausible that sage knits were the only available option by the time the original cuffs wore out.

I'd also point out that my two Superior Togs L-2As retain their original knits, but they're not the typical wool type seen on almost every other cloth or nylon jacket produced before the CWU series. They appear to be primarily cotton, and their colorfastness seems quite inferior to the wool knits. In fact, the collar on one of my jackets is faded noticeably. Could this explain the phenomenon as far as period photos are concerned?

 

[Atticus]

I agree. I think that many, if not most, of the green knits we see on blue nylon jackets were period repairs. As I've posted before, my N-2A came to me with old, sage knits. They were clearly put there when the original blue knits wore out...and I'm almost positive they were put there when the jacket was still in service.

Isn't that a different scenario, in that the sage cuffs were replacements, and the waistband was still the original blue?

It is a different scenario...but I like writing about my jackets! I had to work my N-2A into the conversation somehow.

Seriously, I wrote that to support the idea that sage or olive knits were very likely used to replace the blue knits on blue jackets. Of course, that begs the question as to why Buzz Aldrin's L-2A (in the photo) would have knits that needed replacement after only two or three years of service.

AF

 

[RCSignals]

What colour would blue knits be expected to fade to? I would think they would go to a lighter blue, purple-sh, or grey -ish shade.
The knits on the jacket in the auction to me look like they have been exposed to something, bleach or other. Perhaps to push them into looking older? They still look to me though as if they started on the brown side rather than the blue of he waist knit.

 

[watchmanjimg]

It is a different scenario...but I like writing about my jackets! I had to work my N-2A into the conversation somehow.

Seriously, I wrote that to support the idea that sage or olive knits were very likely used to replace the blue knits on blue jackets. Of course, that begs the question as to why Buzz Aldrin's L-2A (in the photo) would have knits that needed replacement after only two or three years of service.

AF

Geoff, I like when you write about your jackets too.

A definitive answer regarding the Aldrin photo continues to elude us, but what makes you so sure the knits were replaced? If this were the case, I'm curious what could have damaged the collar, cuffs, and waistband simultaneously. Carrying this notion a step further, why wouldn't blue knits be available? The Air Force was a new service at the time this photo was taken, and the blue uniform was a symbol of its independence from the Army. I understand there were leftovers from the Army days as well as the early AF garments in olive drab, but do you really think blue replacements were that rare in the Korean era? I don't know the answer myself, but I wonder.

I remain skeptical of the notion that L-2As were manufactured with OD knits (except by Buzz Rickson) but this is one explanation for Aldrin's jacket. Assuming the photo is unretouched, we've seen anomalies in nylon jackets based on exposure to any number of things (including the completely UV-faded MA-1 I once owned). I still have a hard time ruling this out as the culprit.

 

[asiamiles]

What colour would blue knits be expected to fade to? I would think they would go to a lighter blue, purple-sh, or grey -ish shade.
The knits on the jacket in the auction to me look like they have been exposed to something, bleach or other. Perhaps to push them into looking older? They still look to me though as if they started on the brown side rather than the blue of he waist knit.

There have been examples of faded blue knits posted on here before and this is the colour they end up. We don't know the reason for the fading/change.

Presumably that photo of Buzz Aldrin was taken mid-50's? He wasn't famous at the time, so it's not like he would be wearing a unique special jacket, right? But even from that small photo, we can see that his L-2A has green knits, not faded blue ones. Maybe some should ask him and clear up the confusion.