Perry Sportswear 42-16175-P A2 (Size 44)

[Dr H]

Here are some images of the horsehide Perry that I recently purchased. It's a wartime 44 and fits me very well as a 42 - extremely comfortable across the chest and shoulders and miraculously the sleeves are the perfect length (one of those wider body short sleeves examples Jason!).

The lining is very sturdy (one or two areas to sew near the base) and very wearable. The zip is in excellent order - smooth and with no missing teeth.

The leather shell is tight - no loose seams and all stitching intact (the snaps work well), although one or two smaller nicks from wartime use - all minor and nothing serious. The waistband needs some darning (a job for this evening) as it's ragged towards the base and the cuffs are older replacements, so I'll be picking some up from John.

The collar latch had been replaced as well with a non standard example - I have taken this off and will order another from John too.

In summary, it's a really fine wearer - and as surprised as I am given my preference for goatskin, I actually prefer this to the 23377 pattern (somehow the collar sits lower and works well open or closed), although in time I could see me going for a goat in size 44 to complement this one.

 

[Roughwear]

Ian, It's a very nice example indeed, with a decent vintage patina. It's my size 44 Perry's older bother! Goatskin examples in a 44 are really quite rare and good luck with the search.

 

[arclight]

Very nice score. Could they be Major or Lt. Col. oak leaves that left their evidence on the end of the epaulets?

I know you'll enjoy this one, congrats.

 

[Dr H]

Ian, It's a very nice example indeed, with a decent vintage patina. It's my size 44 Perry's older bother! Goatskin examples in a 44 are really quite rare and good luck with the search.

Thanks Andrew - yes, the patina is much better in the flesh than in the original photos that I saw prior to purchase so I'm delighted with it.

I'm in no rush for the 23377 (this will keep me going for a while) and I'll be looking for a similar amount of wear/patination on it - so you can pick up your mint example first

 

[Dr H]

Very nice score. Could they be Major or Lt. Col. oak leaves that left their evidence on the end of the epaulets?

I know you'll enjoy this one, congrats.

Thanks Arclight - it has already been given an airing at Farnborough during the first press day (despite the heat) and I can see it coming in for a lot of daily wear to work when the weather cools a shade. It is the most comfortable A2 I have worn, original or repro as it suits my body shape really well.

I should be better educated in the epaulette insignia, but I have to admit ignorance here. My previous Perry 23377s have had evidence of single bars (i.e. a reinforcing leather strip) - this one does have four small holes at the points of a square. It might be my imagination, but I can also see a scalloped edge around the points as if a 'cookie cutter' shape has been impressed into the leather with wear.

I must take a proper look at the oak leaves insignia - do the Major/Lt. Col. examples differ much?

Cheers

Ian

 

[TankBuster]

Great looking jacket! Congrats on the purchase!

 

[Roughwear]

Yes you can just make out the outline of major's or Lieutenant col oakleaf insignia.

 

[Jason]

You must be so chuffed Ian, well done!

You can see what I mean about the two different 'cuts' of Perry now, with the "Colonel cut" versus the more standard cut.

What photo best represents the true to life shade of your leather? Mine is about the same as the photo just below the shot of the back of yours... quite a lighter shade of russett.

You've got a fantastic jacket there, after such a long search for it, wear it (carefully!) with pride.

 

[Dr H]

Thanks all, darning and sewing all done now - should be good for a while. Jason, the closest colour is probably the third up from bottom (grainy section next to pocket) as it a very dark russet indeed.
Thankfully I found a colonel's cut to suit my frame!
Weather Looks Set to Be cooler Tomorrow here so looking forward to wearing it tomorrow!

 

[arclight]

Very nice score. Could they be Major or Lt. Col. oak leaves that left their evidence on the end of the epaulets?

I know you'll enjoy this one, congrats.

Thanks Arclight - it has already been given an airing at Farnborough during the first press day (despite the heat) and I can see it coming in for a lot of daily wear to work when the weather cools a shade. It is the most comfortable A2 I have worn, original or repro as it suits my body shape really well.

I should be better educated in the epaulette insignia, but I have to admit ignorance here. My previous Perry 23377s have had evidence of single bars (i.e. a reinforcing leather strip) - this one does have four small holes at the points of a square. It might be my imagination, but I can also see a scalloped edge around the points as if a 'cookie cutter' shape has been impressed into the leather with wear.

I must take a proper look at the oak leaves insignia - do the Major/Lt. Col. examples differ much?

Cheers

Ian

Major and Lieutenant Colonel oak leaves are identical size. Major is gold color, Lt. Col. is silver color. I believe current issue have 2 pins per insignia. Maybe earlier (WWII?) issue rank had 4?
Someone with better knowledge of officer rank and accoutrements can probably nail it down.

If you ever want to sell it..........................!!

 

[Andrew]

Great find at last Ian, i'd be interested to see a shot of it worn to see if it has the same limping collar as mine and Jasons' 16175's. I think this effect is partly the result of the collar stand. I prefer jackets without a CS as they don't ride so far up your next and they feel more casual and relaxed.

Particularly nice HH on this contract.
Here's my sz48.

 

[Dr H]

Hi Andrew

I've not managed to get camera, son and weather together to get a shot of me in the 16175, but this was on the vendor's mannequin/backdrop and gives a good impression of how it sits when zipped.

The collar doesn't limp quite as much (more a slight hobble!), but it has the potential to do so as the collar stand does naturally exert a bit of a twist on the leather.

It's very comfortable in terms of size and significantly warmer than goatskin in the heat (hadn't appreciated how much difference there would be).

I've already taken the plunge and given it a mild wash with a gentle pH balanced soap and sponge and will do so again to remove more of the surface grime. The last wash improved the look and smell and I'll re-condition it to replenish the oils.

Otherwise, very sturdy example that I'm using daily to work now.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Jason]

Yes, look at that, bit of a limp to one side showing there, and also the characteristic label offset to one side... wonder if that was specific to one machine operator at Perry, or wether all 16175's had that? If only I lived in the eastern seaborad, it'd be a bit of fun to try and trace the history of Perry Sportswear, find the original factory (if it still stands) and perhaps even find some of the original plant workers... wouldn't that be a treat?

 

[Vcruiser]

Yes, look at that, bit of a limp to one side showing there, and also the characteristic label offset to one side... wonder if that was specific to one machine operator at Perry, or wether all 16175's had that? If only I lived in the eastern seaborad, it'd be a bit of fun to try and trace the history of Perry Sportswear, find the original factory (if it still stands) and perhaps even find some of the original plant workers... wouldn't that be a treat?

..Wish we still had Grant's story on file...but it was lost on an older version of the VLJ.
He was able to sit and talk with a lady that worked at an A2 factory in NY during WW2...and related that experience on the forum.
Van

 

[deeb7]

..Wish we still had Grant's story on file...but it was lost on an older version of the VLJ.
He was able to sit and talk with a lady that worked at an A2 factory in NY during WW2...and related that experience on the forum.
Van

Grant mentions it on this thread I carried over ...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=146

... and well, we still have Grant.

 

[Cobblers161]

With any luck he'll have a transcript, it'd be a fascinating account. I'll send him a pm.

 

[Dr H]

I no longer have this Perry (it went to CBI in the 'States and has returned to London), but Gary's recent book set me wondering about the hide on this one.

Does this one have the look of steer? It's quite flexible in comparison with other horsehides that I've handled. The grain is also quite unusual (Van commented on this at the time).

Not looking to start an FL stampede, but just curious.

Furthermore, as I think about it there was a longstanding discussion about the diverse appearance of Perry jackets from the 42-16175-P contracts: either caramel coloured, less figured hides (Andrew has a good example), or darker, richer more lustrous hides (Jason has a good example). Is this due to both horse and steer being used in the contract?

 

[Roughwear]

I suspect both horse and steer were used to fulfil this contract for 50,000 jackets. The leather on my russet size 44 Perry is quite different from the darker size 46. They could be hh from two different batches or one could be steer, or even both! I would need Gary to positively identify them!

 

[herk115]

Major and Lieutenant Colonel oak leaves are identical size. Major is gold color, Lt. Col. is silver color. I believe current issue have 2 pins per insignia. Maybe earlier (WWII?) issue rank had 4?
Someone with better knowledge of officer rank and accoutrements can probably nail it down.

If you ever want to sell it..........................!!

Does anyone know how prevalent the wear of pin-on rank insignia was vs. sewn-on or paint-on? Pin-on rank is the easiest to find and is cheapest.

 

[TankBuster]

Pinback rank was not used often on A-2 jackets. It was used on occasion, but not anywhere near the extent of the sewn leather rank.