My Deadstock Irvin

[asiamiles]

Some on here will recall my purchase from eBay a little while ago of a supposedly deadstock Irvin purchased by the seller (presumably from a surplus store) back in 1953 and never worn. I finally was able to inspect the jacket and take some photos (sorry these aren't so good), so maybe the irvin experts on here can tell me exactly what it is I have.

First, I should say that looking at the inside of the jacket it does look pretty much new and unworn, and looking at the outside and the hardware it looks old, as if it has indeed been stored away for 50 years; while it's not 100% perfect (eg. there's a couple of paint spots that are the kind of thing it could easily have picked up if stored with other stuff in a chest in the garage or loft for half a century, that I'm sure will clean off with no problem) it's surely is as close to mint as any original Irvin, if that's what it is, in existence.

I can only find two flaws with the jacket. The first hardly qualifies as such; it's a row of stitch holes near the edge of one of the panels, suggesting the person putting the jacket together let their machine go off-track at one point. The other is that the two sleeve zipper sliders (both marked AM Crown) and pullers don't match; was this an error made at the time of manufacture or is one a replacement? If someone can help me or suggest how I can match them up I'd be most grateful. Also should I apply a coat of Pecard's to help keep it supple?

Here's some pics:

 

[Hawkeye]

Very nice late-war Irvin. I've never seen that panel configuration before on the back, very interesting. The mismatched zippers look original to the jacket, although it is a bit unusual to see an early war dot next to the late-war no-name zip on the right. Looks like the manufacturer was using up the last of the old stock. There is absolutely no need to change them out or match them up, its just about as original as they come. If the jacket has been sitting for 50 years with no treatment, then I would definately recommend a coat of Pecards to keep it looking as good as it is. Congrats on the buy!

 

[deeb7]

Oh great Miles, I was just wondering how you got on with that Irvin. I ain't no expert, but it sure looks real to me, and I'd certainly be happy with it.

Regarding the zippers, yeah, maybe one of the sliders has been changed, but does it matter?

Just leave it as is, and enjoy the jacket.

 

[Andrew]

Looks great Miles, leave it as it is- i'd only fiddle with it if it had a modern zip. Do give it a feed of Pecards though but not too much!

 

[Roughwear]

Very nice jacket Miles. The Dot slider is most likely a replacement. The zip tape and track is identical on both zips and the N marked zips were more typical of late War jackets than Dots on the sleeves. The leather pulls are quite different, which also points to a later replacment. I have seen jackets with mis-matched sleeve zips, bit the leather pulls usually match and in most cases on zip is a replacement. The configuration of the upper back seam tapes is most unusual. Congrats on a great find.

 

[John Lever]

From the dull look of the outer and the fleece colour I would say it has 'some age '
A rare thing to find in such great condition.

 

[asiamiles]

Very nice jacket Miles.

Thanks...I was eager to hear our resident Irvin expert's thoughts. Are you able to ID who the maker of this jacket is? Also what size would this be? I'm a 38 and it fits me rather nicely, though I notice the shoulder seem to droop a little!

Below I believe we can see how the one slider was replaced, by removing the stopper at the top. Any chance of finding a matching replacement, d'you think? I've also added a photo of the lower back (you can see one of the paint spots) as I realised it was cropped off on my earlier pic.

 

[Andrew]

Sorry if i'm sounding like a broken record...

Without a label the Maker could have been any one of several contractors unfortunately- a guess is just speculation but that is the wonderful mystery of the Irvin.

As far as we know no-one has a definitive list of Makers and when they were producing them. I have spoken to Mick Prodger and Graham Potts about this and they don't have much to add and most importantly they don't care to attempt it without documentary evidence.

What's needed is some time spent in Company history Archives or the National Archive. There are some documents i'd like to look at- if only I were in the right geographical space.

 

[asiamiles]

Without a label the Maker could have been any one of several contractors unfortunately- a guess is just speculation but that is the wonderful mystery of the Irvin.

Understood, but from what I gather from reading these very forums, various details (collar shape, zippers, eyelets etc) can lead one, if not to make an accurate or definite id, at least to narrow down to a list of probables? I have to admit my knowledge of Irvin manufacturers is next to nothing, so any suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Hawkeye]

thats interesting, I've never seen a zipper slider replaced in that way before, by removing the stopper. You could try to find a replacement I suppose, but I've never seen those types of no-name late war zips being sold on their own before, so it might take a long while to find one.

 

[Roughwear]

thats interesting, I've never seen a zipper slider replaced in that way before, by removing the stopper. You could try to find a replacement I suppose, but I've never seen those types of no-name late war zips being sold on their own before, so it might take a long while to find one.

Hawkeye, Removing the stopper is the best way I have found to replace zip sliders. I have tried to remove the end stops at the other end, but then the zip wont mesh together!

 

[Roughwear]

Are you able to ID who the maker of this jacket is? Also what size would this be? I'm a 38 and it fits me rather nicely, though I notice the shoulder seem to droop a little!

As Andrew says identifying the maker of an Irvin is very difficult. Some makers are relatively easy such as Wareings, and IAC in the 1930s, but this one could be by any number of makers. The problem is that it lacks a label. A label would link it to a contract number and if the original AM contract documents could be found would link it to a maker. However, I believe some makers sub-contracted some of their work to smaller makers which makes it even more difficult to identify a maker. Enjoy the jacket!

 

[asiamiles]

Thanks for the info. Does there exist a (complete or incomplete) list of contracted Irvin makers?

 

[Roughwear]

Thanks for the info. Does there exist a (complete or incomplete) list of contracted Irvin makers?

I have a long list of Irvin contract numbers. Up until 1941 makers tended to put their names on the labels, but not after this date in case the label on a captured airman's jacket could reveal the location of a factory which could be bombed!

Makers which are known are as follows:

Irvin Air Chute
Wareing and Co
Links
DGL (London)
Robinson and Ensum
Lambskin Ltd
D. Lewis Ltd

 

[asiamiles]

Up until 1941 makers tended to put their names on the labels, but not after this date in case the label on a captured airman's jacket could reveal the location of a factory which could be bombed!

Fascinating. "Visit VLJ...and learn something new every day."

 

[rich]

Asiamiles, there is a lot of Irvin info here, I don't know if you've already come across this -

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=14753

I haven't found anywhere else that has discussed and debated the Irvin so much....?!!?!??!
Plus lots of good pics.

 

[John Lever]

Miles, Hell Drivers ?

 

[asiamiles]

Miles, Hell Drivers ?

Yes John, it's one of my very favourite films. Probably more than anything else Stanley Baker's wearing of an Irvin in this made me want to have one. Most of the drivers in the film wear pretty cool gear.

I was watching NIGHT OF THE EAGLE last night, and I was surprised to see a delivery boy/man arriving at Peter Wyngarde's house wearing an A-2. Why surprised, you might ask? Well, NOTE is a British film, and one does not see many A-2's in a British film that doesn't specifically call for them. That said, the clothes worn in the film are definitely slightly out of the ordinary, especially Wyngarde's wardrobe.

 

[asiamiles]

PS. I have an old Japanese poster for HELL DRIVERS, but a little annoyingly (to me) the image is reversed so that that windflap on the Irvin is on the other side. I'm possibly the only person who ever noticed that! I'll try and post it some time.

 

[Andrew]

Asiamiles, there is a lot of Irvin info here, I don't know if you've already come across this -

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=14753

I haven't found anywhere else that has discussed and debated the Irvin so much....?!!?!??!
Plus lots of good pics.

Yep, that's the only place there is and the best resource. Sometimes we get a bit excited when a new bit of info arrises and it snowballs but lately it's been quiet.