Muroc/March Field photos updated and new

[Weasel_Loader]

Made another trip to our history office last week and found a few more I missed last time. They seem to be taken the same time as the others. This time, I also copied down the type written names on the back of the photos. I'll repost some of the older photos with the names included. Also zoomed in on a Lt. Murray where you can clearly see the name tag above the left pocket of his SAT A-2.

 

[Andrew]

Amazing shots, really sharp too. Thanks Danny.

What year was this?

 

[Weasel_Loader]

I've got dates between 1933-35. Some were taken at March Field and some at Muroc Bombing and Gunnery Range.

 

[Grant]

Amazing photos!
Too bad Kodachrome hadn't been invented yet.

 

[Tokyo Jones]

These photos are incredible! Thanks for taking the time to scan and post them.

 

[Silver Surfer]

ya gotta love those security togs a-2s. to bad none of the repro makers make one....hmmm. killer pix, one and all.

 

[Swing]

interesting that the Group CO is a Major, and everyone else, including the Sqaudron COs, are Lts. And everyone looks like they're well into the 20s, or even into their 30s. Things would change dramatically in a few years, wouldn't it?

~Swing

 

[deand]

Those photos are so great! Notice the slight variations in the 9th Bomb Squadron patches! I love that design. I wonder why one officer has a seventh bomb group patch on his, not the squadron patch. The image quality is breathtaking. And yes, these guys aren't the youngsters of WWII. Peacetime crews and equipment is still very interesting to me, probably because it's an unexplored area of the history for me. Where are these jackets? Imagine finding on of those 9th squadron beauties in some attic or estate sale.





dean

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Most of the personnel wearing the 7th Bomb Group patch are assigned to the wing instead of a squadron. Of course the C.O. would be wearing one since he's the C.O. of the group such as Maj Walton and Tinker. Others are assigned as evaluation pilots and such within the group and not to the squadrons.

I too have taken great interest in pre war era aircraft and people. It was such an interesting time period because everyone had their own thoughts on how the "next" air war would be waged. The U.S. had fallen so far behind in the aircraft technology, but quickly caught up soon after the start of WW2. The Keystone family of bombers were around much longer than they should have and the B-10 was a huge leap forward. I've got that book Airpower on my Xmas list and looks like some good reading on pre war era Air Corps.

Swing, yes, if these guys only knew what lay ahead of them.

 

[Chris217]

Does anybody know how many original known SAT's there are left?

 

[Swing]

Does anybody know how many original known SAT's there are left?

Probably weren't more than 500 to begin with (if that). I've only seen photos of a couple survivors.

~Swing

 

[zoomer]

Someone or other on VLJ ran across a Security A-2 in a vintage store in Chicago several years ago. Security was a Chicago firm and also produced their A-2 for the civvy market (as the "Cordwain" model), so this one may never have left town.
Because it had the company logo label inside, he assumed it was just another latter-day knockoff and left it there.

I'm thinking the Security may actually be too rare to reproduce accurately.

Up to now only the label and spec tag have been reproed, and used on a Buzz Rickson non-contract jacket - no button pockets or zipper rivet as on the Security, not even a zip flap.

Patch is of 392nd Bomb Group, 8th AF.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

I agree Zoomer. Very poor attempt at reproduction of the real SAT A-2. Really hoping someone soon makes a good copy.

 

[asiamiles]

I agree Zoomer. Very poor attempt at reproduction of the real SAT A-2. Really hoping someone soon makes a good copy.

I wouldn't call BR's a "poor attempt" at anything. It's a great 30's style commerical flight jacket, just not the jacket you would like it to be.

Some rare shots of original B-2's with their pockets still present. In that one shot is the one with the lower positioned pocket a B-2 while the three high slightly higher pockets are flying suits?

 

[asiamiles]

Up to now only the label and spec tag have been reproed, and used on a Buzz Rickson non-contract jacket - no button pockets or zipper rivet as on the Security, not even a zip flap.

My Buzz Junky exclusive SAT jacket has a riveted zipper.

 

[deeb7]

Some rare shots of original B-2's with their pockets still present. In that one shot is the one with the lower positioned pocket a B-2 while the three high slightly higher pockets are flying suits?

I think they're all B-2's, Miles ... the similar, one-piece B-7 suit, had the pocket on the other side.

 

[zoomer]

I don't think the Junky Buzz is a poor repro - in fact it's quite handsome. But they weren't trying to do a gov't contract Security, and shouldn't have labeled it as one.

I have a question about Lt. Schoenlein in C Flight and possibly Lt. Murray in his closeup. They look like they might be wearing a 3rd layer in between their jackets and shirts. Or is this just how the scarf is being worn?

You see white silk scarves and what look like OD wool scarves. But then there's a light but nonwhite color, as worn by Lt. Howard in his portrait. What color? What material?

Aircraft note: Lt. Snavely of 31st BS poses in front of one of the eight Douglas B-7s. Four of these were lost in the 1934 emergency air mail operations.
Ralph Snavely taught bombardment at the AAC Tactical School and during WW2 commanded a night fighter wing. He eventually became a brigadier general and Vice Commander of the 14th AF.

 

[rumblefish]

I thought I once saw a piece of clothing (jacket probably) made by Security in Chicago, but I think it's label said Golf Togs. Also the there wasn't a high wing monoplane on the tag, but something else, like a golfer. What caught my eye to it was the large Old English S that began Security on this label. I don't know, it was a while ago when I was newly interested in flight jackets. Maybe it was a dream. :?

 

[Weasel_Loader]

I don't think the Junky Buzz is a poor repro - in fact it's quite handsome. But they weren't trying to do a gov't contract Security, and shouldn't have labeled it as one.

I have a question about Lt. Schoenlein in C Flight and possibly Lt. Murray in his closeup. They look like they might be wearing a 3rd layer in between their jackets and shirts. Or is this just how the scarf is being worn?

You see white silk scarves and what look like OD wool scarves. But then there's a light but nonwhite color, as worn by Lt. Howard in his portrait. What color? What material?

Aircraft note: Lt. Snavely of 31st BS poses in front of one of the eight Douglas B-7s. Four of these were lost in the 1934 emergency air mail operations.
Ralph Snavely taught bombardment at the AAC Tactical School and during WW2 commanded a night fighter wing. He eventually became a brigadier general and Vice Commander of the 14th AF.

Can't really say what they are wearing under the jackets. Too difficult to tell.

I did in fact do some research on the Douglas B-7 when I uncovered the photo at the EAFB history office. Couldn't figure out what aircraft he was standing in front of until finally found the B-7. Very interesting aircraft and never knew if existed until then. Really started to open my eyes on just how many different aircraft (bombers) the U.S. was experimenting with at the time and the roll they all played in with the Army Air Mail service. Not too many B-7s were ever made.

 

[zoomer]

IIRC, when Boeing brought out the B-9 in 1932 it was so fast that no fighter could keep up with it. That led to, no, not more B-9s, but Martin's developing the B-10.