Main differences M422 vs G1

[Thomas Koehle]

Hallo zusammen,

maybe my question was placed already somewhere before but couldn‘t find with the forums search function.

Even if I try with comparing pics I simply do not recognize the differences between M422 and G1 jackets.

Can someone help me out?

Saludos
Thomas

 

[stanier]

Hallo zusammen,

maybe my question was placed already somewhere before but couldn‘t find with the forums search function.

Even if I try with comparing pics I simply do not recognize the differences between M422 and G1 jackets.

Can someone help me out?

Saludos
Thomas

I’m no expert on this topic, but I’m pretty certain I’ve read on several occasions that there is no difference between the M422 and G1, it was just a type designation change. So the last M422’s and first G1’s were essentially identical other than labels and contract details. Of course I could be wrong but that’s what I have lodged in my brain! Cheers Chris

 

[MeachamLake]

As far as I understand it's the following:

- M422a has a more pointed collar, G1 is rounder
- M422a generally is a longer fit; G1s were made somewhat shorter as time went on
- M422a has a wider left pocket as a result of a somewhat hastily done design ammendment to the M422 spec to add a pen slot. The G1 fixed this and has equally sized left and right pockets

 

[Skip]

Thomas, there are quite a few subtle differences between contracts/makers for each of the types m422, m422a, an-j-3a, 55j14 etc. all pertains to design and fit. Details aside, They started off fairly trim and got more boxy during the war then started to taper again with the 55j. By the time your talking G1 -7823 etc the shoulders were wide with really tight waist and the collars got smaller and rounder, eventually going for a synthetic mouton in the later series - 70’s I think?

If you want to know more about a certain contract ie detail in design specifics give Steve Sellers or Maverickson a hoi, they know quite the lot

 

[ties70]

Hi Thomas,

not that I have to throw in much knowledge, but here are some photos to prove some of Meachum's and Matt's points:

First photo is showing my Ostermann M-422A (Size 42, left; sold), my Flying Equipment G-1 (Size 46, keeper) and my Foster G-1 (Sitze 48; right, can't remember if it was I.B. or L.W. Foster; sold)

As you can see, the Ostermann has a relatively long body, compared to the sleeves. Keep in mind that this jacket is 2 or even 3 sizes smaller than the other two ones.
The collar was replaced, as the jacket had a dead teddy bear attached to the leather when I got the jacket.
Compared to the other two jackets, the collar was larger and extremely pointed, almost like a Dubow A-2 or a Doniger.

The sleeve knits were replacements from MASH. The waistband, though, was not the typical Navy style waistband but the waistband used on USAAF A-2's. I remember that I read somewhere that this was solely done by Ostermann.
The lining was all bits and pieces and had to be replaced by my Mom.

As Matt mentioned, the G-1 design developed: The Flying Equipment is trim, with relatively narrow sleeves, and the Foster was a boxy beast, hanging on me like a tent. Please note the different collar patterns, going from large and pointy to small and rounded.

Here is the Flying Equipment:

And worn not so long ago:

And some more details from the M-422A:

USN stencil in black:

Nicely curved pockets.

Yours truly, when I was just a young Padawan...

The M-422a is long gone. I sold it, while the length was quite good, I couldnt fit my weight into the size 42 jacket.

So, the definite things to look out for if you are getting a proper M-422a jacket (or have one made by Shawn ;-) ) should be the body length, the leather color and the collar size...

Best regards,

Ties

 

[ties70]

....and some more M-422a pics from a HL Block I had...

Here, once again, you can see the loooong body compared to the sleeves.

Obviously, M-422A were of a totally different colour than later G-1 contracts.

Hope this helps.

Ties

 

[Thomas Koehle]

Gents,

Thx for pointing out all the difference!

Ties,

Thx for taking the effort to show the details in pics.

Actually i want one made by Shawn and was really struggling with the details. Will maybe have a hybrid made coz shapewise I like the G1 more (did not know about the added bodylength on the M422) but the details like curved flaps on the pockets as well as the color will be more M422 like.

Thanks again!

Thomas

 

[Shawn Ali]

....and some more M-422a pics from a HL Block I had...

Here, once again, you can see the loooong body compared to the sleeves.

Obviously, M-422A were of a totally different colour than later G-1 contracts.

View attachment 11484

View attachment 11485

View attachment 11486

View attachment 11487

Hope this helps.

Ties

plenty of information.. Really helpful

Sent from my SM-J701F using Tapatalk

 

[Thomas Koehle]

found on the net:

should be both M422

 

[johnwayne]

I think most M422's had the deeper red/burgundy satin lining whereas G1's were differing shades of brown and pocket flaps I've always thought were much nicer and stylish on M422's being more scalloped that went the opposite on later G1's with an almost outward curve. Not sure if all variants have the elastic across the back in the bi-swing pleats? Having got 2x early G1's that I've had for quite some years now I only recently discovered that!

 

[Nickb123]

G-1s seem to be cut more "stoutly" with slightly less angular collars than 22s or 6552s. Also, the windflap perforation is absent from the 22s. I think some of the ANs had both the stencil and the USN perforations but I could be wrong. I think slightly longer lengths and cuts are the two biggest differences, but each one probably varied.

 

[B-Man2]

I posted this once before. It clearly shows the differences in the collar shape from the top, ELC m422a, center an original Martin Lane G1, and a late original issue Excelled G1 jacket.

 

[Skip]

As for colour difference, m422’s and AN series were more than likely veg tanned whereas as the G1’s after the 55j14 (1950”s) were chrome tanning. Veg tan would allow the base tanning colour to show through with wear, in some cases we’ve seen in threads here of originals the jackets show some killer patina of tan/ red undertones breaking through the seal colour. As I’m aware and other specialists in leather here may weigh in on this, chrome tanning doesn’t show the wear or patina like veg tanned, as it penetrates right through the leather?

 

[Kennyz]

Thank you Ties, for those very informative posts. You've really helped me to recognize the differences between the two.

Ken

Hi Thomas,

not that I have to throw in much knowledge, but here are some photos to prove some of Meachum's and Matt's points:

First photo is showing my Ostermann M-422A (Size 42, left; sold), my Flying Equipment G-1 (Size 46, keeper) and my Foster G-1 (Sitze 48; right, can't remember if it was I.B. or L.W. Foster; sold)

View attachment 11467

As you can see, the Ostermann has a relatively long body, compared to the sleeves. Keep in mind that this jacket is 2 or even 3 sizes smaller than the other two ones.
The collar was replaced, as the jacket had a dead teddy bear attached to the leather when I got the jacket.
Compared to the other two jackets, the collar was larger and extremely pointed, almost like a Dubow A-2 or a Doniger.

The sleeve knits were replacements from MASH. The waistband, though, was not the typical Navy style waistband but the waistband used on USAAF A-2's. I remember that I read somewhere that this was solely done by Ostermann.
The lining was all bits and pieces and had to be replaced by my Mom.

As Matt mentioned, the G-1 design developed: The Flying Equipment is trim, with relatively narrow sleeves, and the Foster was a boxy beast, hanging on me like a tent. Please note the different collar patterns, going from large and pointy to small and rounded.

Here is the Flying Equipment:

View attachment 11469

And worn not so long ago:

View attachment 11489

And some more details from the M-422A:

View attachment 11476

View attachment 11477

USN stencil in black:
View attachment 11478

Nicely curved pockets.
View attachment 11479

View attachment 11480

Yours truly, when I was just a young Padawan...
View attachment 11481

View attachment 11482
The M-422a is long gone. I sold it, while the length was quite good, I couldnt fit my weight into the size 42 jacket.

So, the definite things to look out for if you are getting a proper M-422a jacket (or have one made by Shawn ;-) ) should be the body length, the leather color and the collar size...

Best regards,

Ties

 

[Kennyz]

Question about G1's...what color is the lining? I've never handled an original, and from the images the lining sometimes looks black, or brown, or even dark grey.

Thank you!

Ken

 

[STEVE S.]

....and some more M-422a pics from a HL Block I had...

Here, once again, you can see the loooong body compared to the sleeves.

Obviously, M-422A were of a totally different colour than later G-1 contracts.

View attachment 11484

View attachment 11485

View attachment 11486

View attachment 11487

Hope this helps.

Ties

I still have this one Ties! What’s it been, about 15 yrs??

 

[ties70]

I still have this one Ties! What’s it been, about 15 yrs??

Steve,

when I posted my comments yesterday, I thought about you for a second but was not sure if the jacket really ended up with you...great to hear that you still have it!!
And yes, it must have been about 15 years ago...over at the old Yahoo forum, right?

I remember the jacket well, 'cause it was one of the nicest old goat I had ever seen by that time.
It still amazes me how these old jackets held up compared to their younger siblings. When I brought the Ostermann to a local leather supplier to get a piece of mouton for the collar, he was pretty sure that the jacket could never have been made in the 40s. He compared it to German police leather jackets from the 60s/70s, which were in worse shape than my Ostermann...

The Block is such a nice combination of hide, colour, aged mouton...the yellow stencil (!)....I wish it could be replicated in my size

Best regards,

Ties

 

[Maverickson]

Hi All,

Thought to chime in on vegetable verses chrome tanned hides as related to being used to build USN type jackets. From my perspective the last USN flight jacket to utilize vegetable tanned hides was the 1950 B - G INC 55J14 model G-1 jacket. They show up on the occasion. Stony has a good example of a B - G INC & can be seen here https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/b-g-inc-from-uss-randolph.21032/.

From the few examples I have seen this B - G INC was not made exclusively using only vegetable tanned hide. Rather a mix of both chrome vegetable tanned hides were utilized during that contract. Not to mention, one of the last jacket makers to use the M-422A type front (front panel that raps around underneath arm pit before connecting to the back) & small back panels. But cut like a G-1.

Not to mention. the last model USN jacket I've encountered that was constructed using a mix of both nylon and cotton thread.

The B - G INC was truly a transitional USN jacket

Cheers, Dave

 

[B-Man2]

Here’s a nice example of the differences in the tannning processes used between the M-422a and the G-1. Its a Mint W&G M-422a. The color and texture of the hide is a chocolate brown and looks great in normal daylight. This photo was taken indoors and doesn’t do it justice.

 

[Boyo]

^^ Wow^^.. Jealous of that one..