Looks like Diamond Dave is Closing up the Jacket Business

[Juanito]

Just saw a message on Facebook that DD is closing up shop as far as jackets go. Sad to hear it having bought one back in 2015. Workmanship was first rate.

"Well, looks like we may have come to the end of my jacket business. It's been, something..."

"Diamond Clothing Co: Thanks everyone. It’s been a tough year with the loss of my Mom and my biz just dwindling. I’m guessing younger people aren’t taking up the hobby anymore. None of my usual buyers are around anymore, and follow on orders just aren’t happening. Oh well, I was no John Chapman anyway, as was made abundantly clear to me by my naysayers. I feel certain they will have a field day with this announcement."

 

[Dany McDonald]

Thats a bad news, I am pretty new to the jacket collecting thing, but tend to appreciate small business where artisans are especially appreciated for their dedication and skills...

Loved your DD Juanito it really aged nicely from the images you shared...

D

 

[B-Man2]

Hate to see another maker bite the dust, but as I mentioned in another post I think the market is saturated now. Another point that was made about two years ago if I remember correctly was, how long would top tier manufacturers continue to survive if they continued to raise their prices. We’ve watched Tier 1 jacket prices go from $400 - $500. ten years ago to $1000 -$1400 . It got a little crazy when you could buy an original WWII A2 for less money than the repro of the same jacket. We discussed this in depth several times , speculating how this would end. Some thought it was the cost of materials and that people would continue to pay for quality A2 repros. Others thought that eventually some makers would price themselves out of the market. As we’ve seen lately relatively cheaper A2 jacket makers have stepped up their game and are making pretty nice jackets for a third or half of the prices of the big boys. Of course this doesn’t mean the end of them but I’ll bet they are taking notice. Sure they will always have a following but I think this new wave of less expensive jacket makers are here to stay . If we look back at all of this, many saw this coming . I think this may just be the beginning of the demise of certain high end jacket makers . I certainly hope not, but I guess we’ll wait and see.

 

[stanier]

I’m not sure Dave’s issue is anything other than the perception that embedded that the jackets were somehow at least second fiddle products to a Goodwear, and a bit of a compromise. Then there was Pilot’s tape patching incident. Then the L-2a 3 inches in length incident wasn’t handled well. These things add up.

I bought a crusher off Dave some years ago and it was top notch. I wish him well for the future, and maybe criticism of a makers product should be more measured and complaints not aired so much in public. I don’t know, the balance is somehow difficult to strike.

I know where we’ve got to is I wouldn’t have bought a jacket. Just speaking honestly and it’s a sad day when a business fails.

 

[Officer Dibley]

Burt, i think you are spot on.

But i also think that the high end makers only need to find one buyer per week (say) who is prepared to pay way more than we would for exclusivity and they are sorted. High profit, low turnover works better for them than making lots of jackets with less profit to make the same profit.
At least that would shorten the waiting lists.

Also, so many people have bought “the perfect jacket” from a high price maker only to soon sell them and that frightens many buyers against spending megabucks to buy a jacket that may not be a keeper.

For DD, the adage “ do what you do do well”. Perhaps sticking to headwear might’ve been better. I wish him well for the future after tough times. I hope he utilizes his hard won and desirable skills too.

 

[ausreenactor]

That's it. Mine is never coming out of the box! Never good to hear. Perhaps the Diamond Flighters are back on?

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

It's a jungle out there.
There are far too many military repro makers for there not to be casualties. the market hasn't grown that much. These days If Aero relied on militaria we'd have a work force of around 5 unstead of our current 25

Same thing happened to the UK Vintage market in the 1970s (OK it wasn't known as vintage then)
The boom started around 1965 with maybe half a dozen shops, by 1971 there were several hundred vintage shops in London, yet by the time we opened The Thrift Shop in 1976 there were probably less than a dozen still trading,


New and recent start ups need to design (well) to survive, they need a USP

 

[ausreenactor]

Norshor are fresh on the scene again. Tier 2 may have a new King?

 

[Officer Dibley]

Nothing sadder than unworn clothing / unused tools.

 

[Smithy]

If you're going to concentrate on A-2s and especially the higher price bracket you'll struggle now unless you're perceived as one of the absolute best (if not THE best) because the market is evolving. As others have said for A-2s the market is absolutely saturated and as Burt points out the quantum and incredibly fast leaps in price of the top tier offerings over the last years combined with the arrival of some cheaper mid price point outfits and their continued improvement in the evolution of their accuracy was always going to change the market. Over the last couple of years I wouldn't mind having a dollar for every time I've heard someone post here or elsewhere that vintage repro jackets (and especially A-2s) were too pricey for them now.

It's really, really sad to see this happen but the way the market has been changing and evolving over the last decade or so, I'm not particularly surprised by this announcement.

 

[Smithy]

I've just had a look over at Facebook at Dave's announcement and there's a very telling factor in his reasons for doing this. He suggests that a major factor in this is a lack of "follow on orders".

When I got seriously interested in flying and vintage jackets back in 2006 and was a fairly prolific member over at the Hat Place, there were a lot of guys buying new repros. It wasn't uncommon for members to be buying several new high end repros a year. These's weren't millionaires but ordinary everyday guys, but there was a difference in the prices of these high end repros. Back then it was easier for the everyday enthusiast to buy a few of these jackets but now for a lot of folks I just don't think it's as easy. A year or two back I chartered the actual price increase in a decade for a couple of makers and the increase far outstripped inflation and wage growth.

It's not really surprising then that the kinds of people who are members here and over at TFL aren't repeat buying high end repros the way they were back in 2006ish. Now before somebody jumps up and down, I'm not saying that nobody is a repeat buyer of high end repros now, I am merely suggesting that maybe not as many buyers are repeat buyers as were back a decade or so ago. The way prices have risen over that period it's not really surprising.

 

[Silver Surfer]

that seems to fill the bill, smithy.

 

[Skyhawk]

Right on target Smithy.

I am very sad to hear about Dave's company. I bought a Flighter crusher cap from DD back when he was making them. That cap was amazing!! Great craftsman Diamond Dave, I can only hope that he will start back up with the hats now that he is stopping the jacket building.

This evolving market is having ripple effects across the board in the Military Repro industry. There are more options now in the lower tier level, and some of these jackets have been improving at a steady rate. Of course this improvement is relative. As they are nowhere near the top tier level.

I think as well that the standards have changed. It seems more acceptable to have zippers that almost look legit but are cheap, Knits that are not 100% wool, sub standard hides that look cheap and thin, and details that are not correct. This mentality of bargain over authenticity is a bit troubling to me.

It takes a true passion in these jackets and a lot of study and research to get things up to a decent level of authenticity. This can't be done by using cheap alternative parts and trying to have the jacket done "just good enough to be acceptable and sell", rather then as authentic as possible regardless of the cost.

Passion will take you a long way in this industry. It will take you so much further than just being spoon fed the details from "The Experts". It provides for you the desire to study and research these jackets in depth. For example, it took over 5 years to nail down all the details on the Aviatrix, Earhart's jacket. The results are a design that is closer than anyone has come to an exact reproduction. This intense research resulted in identifying details that others had missed, like the ID on the gusseted arms. An unknown feature until I found obscure photos of that portion of the jacket.

In the end it is the customers that make a company successful or not. This shift in the market is effecting many companies at some level. Reduction of sales can have devastating effects on a small business and I believe this is part of what we are seeing here with Diamond Dave's outfit.

I can only hope that in the end, some customers will not be satisfied with the cheap alternative jackets with sub standard parts, and will want something more authentic and of higher quality.

 

[Steve27752]

Right on target Smithy.

I am very sad to hear about Dave's company. I bought a Flighter crusher cap from DD back when he was making them. That cap was amazing!! Great craftsman Diamond Dave, I can only hope that he will start back up with the hats now that he is stopping the jacket building.

This evolving market is having ripple effects across the board in the Military Repro industry. There are more options now in the lower tier level, and some of these jackets have been improving at a steady rate. Of course this improvement is relative. As they are nowhere near the top tier level.

I think as well that the standards have changed. It seems more acceptable to have zippers that almost look legit but are cheap, Knits that are not 100% wool, sub standard hides that look cheap and thin, and details that are not correct. This mentality of bargain over authenticity is a bit troubling to me.

It takes a true passion in these jackets and a lot of study and research to get things up to a decent level of authenticity. This can't be done by using cheap alternative parts and trying to have the jacket done "just good enough to be acceptable and sell", rather then as authentic as possible regardless of the cost.

Passion will take you a long way in this industry. It will take you so much further than just being spoon fed the details from "The Experts". It provides for you the desire to study and research these jackets in depth. For example, it took over 5 years to nail down all the details on the Aviatrix, Earhart's jacket. The results are a design that is closer than anyone has come to an exact reproduction. This intense research resulted in identifying details that others had missed, like the ID on the gusseted arms. An unknown feature until I found obscure photos of that portion of the jacket.

In the end it is the customers that make a company successful or not. This shift in the market is effecting many companies at some level. Reduction of sales can have devastating effects on a small business and I believe this is part of what we are seeing here with Diamond Dave's outfit.

I can only hope that in the end, some customers will not be satisfied with the cheap alternative jackets with sub standard parts, and will want something more authentic and of higher quality.

Well said!

 

[Dany McDonald]

ELC and GW are out of the question for me, why?

I bought two repros that I love, one quartermaster from Ken and one Dubow from Platon. The cost for these, to me, are justifiable when compared to other high end.

So two leather jackets or wearers that will get better with age and wear, wear, wear....yes, no? hummm....

How can I justify $1300 or more for ELC, etc ... When I can buy an original for less....?

ELC Cable would be my next..or Monarch......ahhh

Just my two cents....

D

 

[colekwok]

It's really a pity that DD is going out of business. Like he mentioned in one of his messages, he is simply not John Chapman. I believe will have enough orders to finish until he retires, if he retires that is. DD's collection somehow coincide with a lot of other manufacturers, such as the popular Buco J-100 as well as all his A-2s, Thuston Bro (Aero) as well as RMC are both offering Buco labelled jackets, I am not sure how the patent works though. As for the hat business, I think there are also plenty of competitions since Dave left the field.

 

[DiamondDave]

It's really a pity that DD is going out of business. Like he mentioned in one of his messages, he is simply not John Chapman. I believe will have enough orders to finish until he retires, if he retires that is. DD's collection somehow coincide with a lot of other manufacturers, such as the popular Buco J-100 as well as all his A-2s, Thuston Bro (Aero) as well as RMC are both offering Buco labelled jackets, I am not sure how the patent works though. As for the hat business, I think there are also plenty of competitions since Dave left the field.

Real McCoys owns the Buco name, in Japan. They used to hold it here in the US, but it is not currently live, though they would have first right of refusal if anyone tried to copyright it now.

Outside of Japan I was actually the first to make the J-100 of those listed. Aero didn’t make one until later, and then only at the request of Thurston Bro’s.

Remember I made motorcycle jackets for several years before learning to make A-2’s.

DD

 

[Bombing IP]

I think as well that the standards have changed. It seems more acceptable to have zippers that almost look legit but are cheap, Knits that are not 100% wool, sub standard hides that look cheap and thin, and details that are not correct. This mentality of bargain over authenticity is a bit troubling to me.

I take your point Skyhawk but on the other side of the coin pay raises in the last eight years are 1% per year if your lucky .While the world we live in we are told no inflation but the reality the fruits of our labor do not cover our costs of normal living . Meanwhile every thing is jumping up leaps and bounds in terms of cost .If you lose your job you almost certainly do not get a job with the same money or more you go backwards and are told you are lucky to have a job .Quality is secondary to quantity that why bargain stores are doing so well and the gap between rich and poor gets greater . It's not where we want to be but where we are pushed into its the hard reality of life .I have bought high end jackets from GW ELC new and lost my shirt when I sold them so the investment value is negative .Why buy new when you can dictate the price and get most of what you paid back when you sell it ,now the niche lower price market pushes the camel's nose in the tent tests the waters identifies adapts to the market wants .Then the whole camel is pushed into the tent as a serious player FIVE * for example . Then if you are Diamond Dave visiting the forum the buzz is about A-2 Five Star this Five Star that and its all this and a bag of chips ,and there is nothing you can do about it to compete . With regards to acceptable standards of A2 and the like only matter to the likes of us on the forum and a very small minority of the buying public .

Jeff

 

[Changeling]

Don`t like the sound of this Camel been mistreated, but yes those with plenty of money hardly think twice about spending it on something they desire, the less well off can look for bargains or wait and save up over time for the quality products we would like to own. I have always saved when I could for good quality products if I really wanted them rather than buy on credit because I cannot afford some luxury goods. I will always go for quality and it`s the design of something in it`s details that appeals, but there will always be a cheaper version of just about anything for people to buy, but I`m not fussy about plastic spoons.

 

[Skyhawk]

Point well made B IP. However, whether being pushed into it or not, I believe there is a slip in the acceptable standards.

The materials some of the low end guys use are sub standard in the repro industry. Counterfeit Chinese Zips with nylon tapes, acrylic knits, and common sheepskin that is only "Capeskin" by a technicality, is not everything and a bag of chips to some. Then for some it is good enough which ties back into changing standards.

DD was in no way on the same level as these makers. Totally different jackets on a completely different level.