Looking 4 the pictures of original SecurityAviationTogs A-2

[Lee-AVG]

Hi folks,
is there anyone here who got the pictures of original Security Aviation Togs A-2 jacket? I'v been looking for them for long time, but just only found some pics of Buzz Rickson repro Security Aviation Togs A-2.
I'm interested in the A-2 jacket of this contract these days, it's really different from any other A-2s in WWII.

many thanks
regards
Lee

 

[dadgad]

 

[Lee-AVG]

Thanks a lot, dadgad
PS: do you have any other pictures of this contract? I'll appreciate that!

 

[deeb7]

You can also find examples, by searching through the original photos on the forum.

Like these, posted by Danny ...

viewtopic.php?p=234

 

[asiamiles]

is there anyone here who got the pictures of original Security Aviation Togs A-2 jacket? I'v been looking for them for long time, but just only found some pics of Buzz Rickson repro Security Aviation Togs A-2.
I'm interested in the A-2 jacket of this contract these days, it's really different from any other A-2s in WWII.

Buzz's Security Aviation Togs A-2 is actually a non-military issue 20'~30's-era style leather flight jacket (we don't know whether it's a Buzz invention or a copy of an original jacket) quite different from the SAT A-2 seen in those photos. Interesting to see that pre-war pilots seemed to wear their jackets much looser than we're used to seeing from those in wartime photos.

Does anyone know what hide was used for the SAT A-2?

 

[deeb7]

Does anyone know what hide was used for the SAT A-2?

I guess horsehide, Miles, the original spec, the goatskin coming in later.

And I'm not aware of any recorded original label, but I assume that the contract was awarded to Security Sportswear, the Aviation Togs label being from the civilian range.

 

[Lee-AVG]

Buzz's Security Aviation Togs A-2 is actually a non-military issue 20'~30's-era style leather flight jacket (we don't know whether it's a Buzz invention or a copy of an original jacket) quite different from the SAT A-2 seen in those photos. Interesting to see that pre-war pilots seemed to wear their jackets much looser than we're used to seeing from those in wartime photos.

Does anyone know what hide was used for the SAT A-2?

Hi asiamiles, I noticed that there are so many differences between Buzz Rickson SAT A-2 and original SAT A-2 in those BW pre-war photos, such as: Buzz SAT A-2 got no wind flap, no epaulet, pockets and its flaps are like the real A-2's, but in many history photos the pockets of original SAT A-2 look like the A-1's.......... i think maybe it's buzz's fantasy, ummm, who knows.

 

[Lee-AVG]

You can also find examples, by searching through the original photos on the forum.

Like these, posted by Danny ...

http://vintageleatherjackets.org/viewtopic.php?p=234

Oh thanks, deeb7

 

[zoomer]

Yes, any jackets you see in the squadron pix with zip fronts but button pockets will (presumably) be Securitys. It was the first known contract A-2, No. 32-485.

Werber's 33-1729 was the second, with snap pockets.
After that, no more contracts are known until 1936 (Werber again, No. 36-1112P).
Given the very much downsized Air Corps of those days, it is entirely possible that they may not have procured any more flight jackets for 3 years.
There is an AAC communiqué from mid-1935 discussing procurement of 500 A-2s, which may well have been the second Werber order. (We know of no further Security orders.)

2 pix posted somewhat frequently here (but always worth re-seeing), with prominent AAC officers in Securitys:

Lt. Charles Howard, commanding 11th Bomb Squadron, ca. 1932.

Maj. Kenneth Walker, XO 7th Bomb Group, 1937.

 

[Lee-AVG]

these infos are very detailed, thanks for posting that, zoomer!!!

 

[asiamiles]

I guess horsehide, Miles, the original spec, the goatskin coming in later.

I thought the jacket pictured above (from Full Gear?) looked like it might be goatskin.

 

[deeb7]

I guess horsehide, Miles, the original spec, the goatskin coming in later.

I thought the jacket pictured above (from Full Gear?) looked like it might be goatskin.

In the book the photo is darker, and a lot sharper, and it looks very much like horsehide.

.... and that first contract should be horse, with the silk lining. Maybe it's just how it reproduced.

 

[Roughwear]

I guess horsehide, Miles, the original spec, the goatskin coming in later.

I thought the jacket pictured above (from Full Gear?) looked like it might be goatskin.

In the book the photo is darker, and a lot sharper, and it looks very much like horsehide.

.... and that first contract should be horse, with the silk lining. Maybe it's just how it reproduced.

I agree with David. Studying the picture in Full Gear it would appear to be horse as is the one in the Art of the Flight Jacket, pp. 148-150. There are some useful photos in here (MaGuire) of the details of this iconic A2.

 

[asiamiles]

Surprised that no manufacturer has had a go at repro SAT A-2. The difficulty (impossibilty?) of locating an original to pattern the jacket from is obviously a hinderance, but hey, John was able to make a Good Wear A-1 without access to an original.

 

[johnwayne]

No Joking - I let one of these slip through my hands recently - at a market in Spitalfields (London). Was about a 40" (too small for me) and was going for £150!! Was quite good condition too!

It was one of those moments when later you realise the error of your ways - Doh!!!!!

Wayne

 

[Roughwear]

No Joking - I let one of these slip through my hands recently - at a market in Spitalfields (London). Was about a 40" (too small for me) and was going for £150!! Was quite good condition too!

It was one of those moments when later you realise the error of your ways - Doh!!!!!

Wayne

This is amazing Wayne, assuming it was a genuine SAT A2. I bet you are kicking yourself for not having bought it.

 

[zoomer]

Let me guess...you assumed it was some mall jacket with a make-believe order number. :| After all, real milspec A-2 makers never put a colorful trademarked label in, or used spec tags that look like they're from an A-1. And button pockets? My gosh, who were they kidding?! :lol:

 

[asiamiles]

No Joking - I let one of these slip through my hands recently - at a market in Spitalfields (London). Was about a 40" (too small for me) and was going for £150!! Was quite good condition too!

Oh no! But we've all done it, more than once. I missed what I think was a SAT on Yahoo Japan; relined and recuffed and too big for me but as less than $400 I could have tripled my outlay, and what's more we would have had a jacket to make a pattern from. But £150 on a market stall? My size as well!

 

[johnwayne]

Genuine SAT I can asssure you, still with the SAT label and only that one BUT, it didin't have button pockets. Must confess it did throw me at the time - I could see it was too small so didn't try on and almost certainly would have bought it, had it fitted, but yes I did pore over it, realised I didin't have my wallet or cards on me and had to get back to work!! I did actually ask if he'd be back the folowing week, got home, checked it out but the next week he'd sold it!!! As I said... DOH!!!!!!!
Hopefully it 'll remain as........the one that got away!

Cheers to all and sunny weekend ahead

Wayne

 

[asiamiles]

Genuine SAT I can asssure you, still with the SAT label and only that one BUT, it didin't have button pockets.

That's interesting. It had snap pockets? It could have been a commercial jacket made by SAT.