G1 - Use of goatskin in 1970’s era jackets

[MSC100]

Greetings all,

Wondering how long the various contractors continued to use goatskin in this era ? How far into the 1970’s did the goatskin go before changing to leather ?

 

[mulceber]

The “Better Fighting Garment” sticky in the vintage section is your friend here…

 

[Erwin]

Regarding late G1 - as noted in MIL-J-7823E_AMENDMENT-3, the type of leather used previously, where goat hides specification [KK-L-170] has been removed from the MIL-J-7823E [http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-J/MIL-J-7823E_9437/] specification in favor of cattle hides.

 

[Skyhawk]

They are still making Goat G-1's to this day for issue to aircrew. The difference is that now they can use both Goat and Cow.

 

[Erwin]

Hey Skyhawk,

It is interesting. As per MIL-DTL-7823F [9 June 2020] you can find: FEDERAL SPECIFICATIONS - KK-L-170 - Leather, Kidskin, or Goatskin, Chrome-Tanned but under DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SPECIFICATIONS a mil-spec for the leather points to MIL-DTL-32092 - Leather, Cattlehide, Deerskin and Horsehide, Chrome Tanned [no goat hide], see [http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-DTL/download.php?spec=MIL-DTL-32092.044304.pdf].
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3.4.1 Leather.

3.4.1.1 Basic material. The basic material used as the outershell of the jacket shall be fabricated from leather 2½ ounces thick, conforming to Class 2, Type I of MIL-DTL-32092, with the exceptions listed below. The leather shall be dyed brown to match Navy Shade 3756. The leather shall be drum dyed and the dye shall completely penetrate the leather from grain to flesh side. The leather shall have a light application of finish and dye containing only sufficient pigment to assist in making the color uniform. The finish shall not crack, flake, part from the leather, or become tacky. The cattle hide leather shall have a goatskin grain finish. As an alternate, the Class 2 of KK-L-170 may be used with the exceptions listed below:

These exceptions apply to MIL-DTL-32092 and KK-L-170:

a. Shrinkage temperature - the average shrinkage temperature shall be 94 degrees Celsius with minimum value of 90 degrees Celsius for any specimen.

b. Elongation - at least 80 percent of the specimens tested shall have a minimum elongation of 20.0 percent and a maximum elongation of 60.0 percent at a load of 25 pounds. c. The requirements for pH, chrome and ash content are deleted.
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A complete F mil-spec can be found here https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/attachments/g-1-jacket-pdf.101547/

 

[Jorgeenriqueaguilera]

They switched to cowhide in 75. Prior to that was just goatskin.

 

[Erwin]

They are still making Goat G-1's to this day for issue to aircrew. The difference is that now they can use both Goat and Cow.

Who are "they"? Any valid examples [contract ones] of modern G1s where goat hide was used? This would be interesting As far as I'm aware, there is no goat hide mentioned in MIL-DTL-7823F 9 June 2020, only reference for this can be found in KK-L-170C. As per current mil-specification, no goat hides are used for any contract garment.

MILITARY DETAILED SPECIFICATION LEATHER, CATTLEHIDE, DEERSKIN AND HORSEHIDE, CHROME TANNED

This specification is approved for use by all Department and Agencies of the Department of Defense.

1. SCOPE This Military Detailed Specification covers the requirements for full grain cattlehide, deerskin and horsehide; and the cattlehide flesh splits.

1.2 CLASSIFICATION. The leather will be in the following types:
Type I - Cattlehide, full grain, for garments and equipage
Type II – Deerskin, full grain, for garments and equipage
Type III Horsehide, full grain for garments and equipage
Type IV – Cattlehide, flesh splits for garments and equipage
(Classes 1 and 2 are applicable to types I, II, III and IV only)

Class 1 – Mildew resistant treated
Class 2 - Not mildew resistant treated

Type V - Cattlehide, full grain for gloves
Type VI - Deerskin, full grain for gloves
Type VII – Horsehide, full grain for gloves
Type VIII – Cattlehide flesh splits for gloves

[Based on MIL-DTL-32092 November 8, 2001 SUPERSEDING KK-L-2004 November 15, 1976]

 

[Skyhawk]

@Erwin
Some of the Excelled G-1's from the 2000's look to be Goatskin, then others are obviously pressed Cow. I haven't owned a G-1 later than the 1980's. I would by surprised if none are made in Goat these days. It is a superior leather to make a G-1 jacket out of, and it's not more expensive than Cow. "Superseding" in Mil Spec doesn't always mean the use is prohibited. We see this time and time again with regards to Military Specifications. Where an item has been superseded, but still shows up on later contracts.

 

[MSC100]

The “Better Fighting Garment” sticky in the vintage section is your friend here…

Awesome information - thanks much !

 

[Deacon211]

I was issued a Cooper G-1 in 1990 and it was goat FWIW.

 

[Erwin]

I was issued a Cooper G-1 in 1990 and it was goat FWIW.

Hey Deacon211, it is interesting, what contract was it?

 

[Skyhawk]

Here's one from 2008. Looks to be Goat:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296271333538

 

[mulceber]

Here's one from 2008. Looks to be Goat:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296271333538

Really? I could be wrong, but that jacket looks like cowhide with a pebbly imprint to me. Something about the grain doesn't look real to my eye.

 

[Skyhawk]

Pretty sure it's goat. Look at the variation in grain. They don't put variation in the embossing of the hide. It just all looks like the same uniform grain. That is not the case here:

 

[Deacon211]

Hey Deacon211, it is interesting, what contract was it?

Hey, sorry for the late reply. I’m afraid I don’t know the contract…I wound up trading in my Cooper in the early 2000s down in P-Cola for a decidedly less attractive Pharr.

Big regret. I’m pretty sure it was cow and not very good cow at that.

 

[PeterShiao]

Really? I could be wrong, but that jacket looks like cowhide with a pebbly imprint to me. Something about the grain doesn't look real to my eye.

Yep , i agree with you and the seller says it's a heavy leather version of g1