CWU 36 legit?

[Thomas Koehle]

Gents,

i found this CWU "as is" fully patched and i'm wondering whether the combination of patches makes sense to you or looks rather like someone patched her "post issue" or after demob

Any hints or opinions appreciated

 

[B-Man2]

Thomas
The jacket looks legit to me. Patches look authentic, it was just overdone by its original owner.

 

[Rutger]

The 435th never was part of the 401st.

435th Fighter Training Squadron - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

401st Air Expeditionary Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FlakMagnet]

Fantastic jacket though

 

[LJDRVR]

Utterly bullcrap.

- Although the Major’s oak leaves are commensurate with the senior pilot wings, they aren’t in the right place. They should be flush with the top of the arm seam line. The seamstresses at Air Force dry cleaners know their AFIs cold and would never sew those on incorrectly. Forget whether the pilot knows her uniform standards, you’d better believe that seamstress working at AAFES most certainly DOES.

- No idea what’s being attempted with that nametag. Each unit has its own colors, with some even featuring an aircraft silhouette. But any flightsuit or flight jacket patch will be embroidered. Not brown leather. WTF does SPW stand for? The line below the name would have the rank on the left and USAF, USAFR, DCANG, etc. on the right:

JOHN SMITH
1LT. USAF

Or it would simply be blank, or maybe a command star and wreath.

- Nobody puts a patch above the nametag. NASA or USN? Sure, why not? USAF today? Never.

-The flag is backward.

-That’s not what an actual air combat command patch looks like. Pilots are issued patches from their units when they arrive. The ACC patch pictured isn’t something you find in any government stocks. Proportions, size and color and font are wonky.

Lastly, most jackets have velcroed on patches, not sewn. In the 80’s and 90’s, there were even velcroed rank in some commands. (SAC)

 

[B-Man2]

The 435th never was part of the 401st.

435th Fighter Training Squadron - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

401st Air Expeditionary Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hi
I think the original owner might have served in both units at some point in his career which entitled him to wear both unit Patches on his jacket .

 

[LJDRVR]

Hi
I think the original owner might have served in both units at some point in his career which entitled him to wear both unit Patches on his jacket .

The only patch I can think of you’d be allowed to wear that wasn’t directly associated with your current unit would be a flag, a fighter weapons school patch or an instrument flying school patch. The Army has something like that, but not the Air Force.

That jacket is real and the rank insignia are real, but misplaced. Everything else is made up and improperly attached.

 

[Monsoon]

All our junk is secure with Velcro so the jacket can be “sanitized“ if needed. Officers do have their rank sewn on tho. Never seen brown leather name tags and SPW isn’t any AF rank.

 

[LJDRVR]

it also bears repeating, with absolutely no scorn meant and nothing but concern for people understanding the importance of these things, that wearing those wings or that grade insignia is simply not considered appropriate behavior by those who’ve earned them.

This group is an amazing culture of great personalities and incredible jacket knowledge. But those specific little bits of colored cloth and leather are not meant for you. Squadron patches? Awesome! You honor that unit with the spirit of camaraderie and respect that shows for the importance of what they do or did.

Think about the young men and women that died trying to earn the right to wear those wings. I know mine isn’t a popular opinion, but I’m telling you the truth. Not to point fingers, but because I think you guys are better than that.

YMMV

Respectfully, me.

 

[MauldinFan]

Utterly bullcrap.

- Although the Major’s oak leaves are commensurate with the senior pilot wings, they aren’t in the right place. They should be flush with the top of the arm seam line. The seamstresses at Air Force dry cleaners know their AFIs cold and would never sew those on incorrectly. Forget whether the pilot knows her uniform standards, you’d better believe that seamstress working at AAFES most certainly DOES.

- No idea what’s being attempted with that nametag. Each unit has its own colors, with some even featuring an aircraft silhouette. But any flightsuit or flight jacket patch will be embroidered. Not brown leather. WTF does SPW stand for? The line below the name would have the rank on the left and USAF, USAFR, DCANG, etc. on the right:

JOHN SMITH
1LT. USAF

Or it would simply be blank, or maybe a command star and wreath.

- Nobody puts a patch above the nametag. NASA or USN? Sure, why not? USAF today? Never.

-The flag is backward.

-That’s not what an actual air combat command patch looks like. Pilots are issued patches from their units when they arrive. The ACC patch pictured isn’t something you find in any government stocks. Proportions, size and color and font are wonky.

Lastly, most jackets have velcroed on patches, not sewn. In the 80’s and 90’s, there were even velcroed rank in some commands. (SAC)

Yep, your post nails all the problems with it. I wasn't USAF but I dealt with them over a while and I never saw thay style of name tag. And yeah, SPW???
But as for ranks, I personally saw sewing places on or just off post who horribly botched the locations of ranks. But I agree this was just put together by someone who thought it 'looked cool'.
But as for the "everything is earned" mindset, I have noticed that those screaming loudest about 'stolen valor' are most often never served or never went downrange. Most 'been there done that' types generally feel there's more important things to get you knickers in a twist over.
I've said it before, if I saw someone wearing a field jacket with my last unit patch or rank, I wouldn't really care just as long as they're not trying to get something out of it unjustly. Otherwise, it's just a freaking jacket.

 

[Thomas Koehle]

Gentlemen,

thx for your knowledge and opinions.

I bought the jacket „as it is“ without any background info. To gain some more details and an idea whether it is legit I posted the pics.

The jacket was ridiculously cheap compared to an original if all the credits would be real - this fact and off coarse the backwards „stars ‚n stripes“ made me wonder.

I bought the jacket for my daughter coz she complaint she ain’t own a „bomber jacket“ and there she has it.

The poor girl - even though her father explained 100 time before the description „bomber jacket“ is for the dilletants only she will never notice what’s wrong with the jacket but will love it coz it is colourful.

Here in Germany no one gives a sh… (sorry for the drastic words) about „stolen valour“ so there isn’t any chance she‘s getting arrested for that. And - finally - she will not pretend to be a real pilot and try to steal an airplane or get free lunch on any American airbase here in Europe.

Like said: it’s just a freakin‘ jacket

 

[Thomas Koehle]

it also bears repeating, with absolutely no scorn meant and nothing but concern for people understanding the importance of these things, that wearing those wings or that grade insignia is simply not considered appropriate behavior by those who’ve earned them.

This group is an amazing culture of great personalities and incredible jacket knowledge. But those specific little bits of colored cloth and leather are not meant for you. Squadron patches? Awesome! You honor that unit with the spirit of camaraderie and respect that shows for the importance of what they do or did.

Think about the young men and women that died trying to earn the right to wear those wings. I know mine isn’t a popular opinion, but I’m telling you the truth. Not to point fingers, but because I think you guys are better than that.

YMMV

Respectfully, me.

I really honor and accept your point but think it is totally overrating the situation.

Thx for your comments anyway.

 

[Thomas Koehle]

Yep, your post nails all the problems with it. I wasn't USAF but I dealt with them over a while and I never saw thay style of name tag. And yeah, SPW???
But as for ranks, I personally saw sewing places on or just off post who horribly botched the locations of ranks. But I agree this was just put together by someone who thought it 'looked cool'.
But as for the "everything is earned" mindset, I have noticed that those screaming loudest about 'stolen valor' are most often never served or never went downrange. Most 'been there done that' types generally feel there's more important things to get you knickers in a twist over.
I've said it before, if I saw someone wearing a field jacket with my last unit patch or rank, I wouldn't really care just as long as they're not trying to get something out of it unjustly. Otherwise, it's just a freaking jacket.

Totally nailed it …

 

[Pilot]

it also bears repeating, with absolutely no scorn meant and nothing but concern for people understanding the importance of these things, that wearing those wings or that grade insignia is simply not considered appropriate behavior by those who’ve earned them.

This group is an amazing culture of great personalities and incredible jacket knowledge. But those specific little bits of colored cloth and leather are not meant for you. Squadron patches? Awesome! You honor that unit with the spirit of camaraderie and respect that shows for the importance of what they do or did.

Think about the young men and women that died trying to earn the right to wear those wings. I know mine isn’t a popular opinion, but I’m telling you the truth. Not to point fingers, but because I think you guys are better than that.

YMMV

Respectfully, me.

Many thanks for these words, well said IMHO, and no puning intended to all those wearing patched artworked jackets and others… as long as they wear them with respect and not as a “ Carnival “ artifact. Reenactment is great and respectful…IMHO.
I am fully aware that our “all for free, all free speeches, free living social behavior , is taken all for granted even mendatory in some instances ( fine )…the ”new” world permits it , tolerates a lot of “trespassings” and even finds it cool…wow!
Sorry if I dont… brought up respectfully differently…
I respect and honor every deserved merited patch, award and others…if deserved …with respect and I bow down… regardless, of what side they fought or are from , they deserved and merited it, be it and congrats!
Wearing an official issued item with ranks and patches…hmm.. you don’t deserve …hmm ..is a NO GO… for my person…( why not wearing WWI or WWII Heroes awards and uniforms with the same in a disco or in a shopping street? ).
“Mit fremden Federn geschmückt…”.. in German… ( our politics show us this behavior anyway) …
Nothing against a kid doing so, because .. hmm .. its cool… My kids never did, nor did I…A question of “Kinderstube”… Respect and Honor…not banalities… for me..
Again, just my opinion and way of life…
To finish … because of “ Germany “…
Now there is a saying in Germany…
“ Früher hatten wir Ehre und Stolz… heute haben wir Lauterbach und Scholz”… Nothing politcal… just a reflective attitude many prone/live with in Germany and other Western Democraties nowadays …not good… IMHO we fall into mediocrity.. also no good for our high pricing high ethics high quality economy…Hope this “new waves snowflakes” will contribute for all the well deserved retirement pensions of my and our elderlies … ( I dont need it… but others?).
Honor and respect to those who served and merited all the awards and ranks they proudly display/wear… is it not important anymore.. ? apparently…WTF?!
No puning, no ranting … my observations out of living in South Korea, Japan and for a few weeks/ year… now in Luxemburg..probably a generation soon extinguished..

 

[Pilot]

Many thanks for these words, well said IMHO, and no puning intended to all those wearing patched artworked jackets and others… as long as the wear them with respect and not as a “ Carnival “ artifact.
I am full aware that our “all for free, all free speaches, free living, is taken all for granted even mendatory …the” new” world permits it tolerates a lot of “trespassings” and even finds it cool…
Sorry if I dont.
I respect and honor every deserved merited patch award and others… with respect and I bow down… regardless, of what side they deserved and merited it.
Wearing an official issued item with ranks and patches… you don’t deserve is a NO GO… for my person…( why not wearing WWI or WWII Heroes awards and uniforms with the same in a disco or in a shopping street? ).
Nothing against a kid doing so because .. hmm .. its cool… My kids never did nor did I…A question of Kinderstube… Respect and Honor…
Again, just my opinion and way of life…
To finish … because of “ Germany “…
Now there us a saying in Germany…
“ Früher hatten wir Ehre und Stolz… heute haben wir Lauterbach und Scholz”… Nothing politcal… just a reflective attitude many in Germany and other Western Democraties…
Honor and respect… is not important anymore.. apparently…
No puning, no ranting … my observation out of living in South Korea, Japan and for a few weeks/ year… now in Luxemburg..

Edit… Thomas!
its a great jacket… the CWU-37/P is 1000% legit.

 

[MauldinFan]

I bought the jacket for my daughter coz she complaint she ain’t own a „bomber jacket“ and there she has it.

I think that's the perfect use for this jacket, and I hope she gets a lot of joy from wearing it.

 

[Thomas Koehle]

Many thanks for these words, well said IMHO, and no puning intended to all those wearing patched artworked jackets and others… as long as they wear them with respect and not as a “ Carnival “ artifact. Reenactment is great and respectful…IMHO.
I am fully aware that our “all for free, all free speeches, free living social behavior , is taken all for granted even mendatory in some instances ( fine )…the ”new” world permits it , tolerates a lot of “trespassings” and even finds it cool…wow!
Sorry if I dont… brought up respectfully differently…
I respect and honor every deserved merited patch, award and others…if deserved …with respect and I bow down… regardless, of what side they fought or are from , they deserved and merited it, be it and congrats!
Wearing an official issued item with ranks and patches…hmm.. you don’t deserve …hmm ..is a NO GO… for my person…( why not wearing WWI or WWII Heroes awards and uniforms with the same in a disco or in a shopping street? ).
“Mit fremden Federn geschmückt…”.. in German… ( our politics show us this behavior anyway) …
Nothing against a kid doing so, because .. hmm .. its cool… My kids never did, nor did I…A question of “Kinderstube”… Respect and Honor…not banalities… for me..
Again, just my opinion and way of life…
To finish … because of “ Germany “…
Now there is a saying in Germany…
“ Früher hatten wir Ehre und Stolz… heute haben wir Lauterbach und Scholz”… Nothing politcal… just a reflective attitude many prone/live with in Germany and other Western Democraties nowadays …not good… IMHO we fall into mediocrity.. also no good for our high pricing high ethics high quality economy…Hope this “new waves snowflakes” will contribute for all the well deserved retirement pensions of my and our elderlies … ( I dont need it… but others?).
Honor and respect to those who served and merited all the awards and ranks they proudly display/wear… is it not important anymore.. ? apparently…WTF?!
No puning, no ranting … my observations out of living in South Korea, Japan and for a few weeks/ year… now in Luxemburg..probably a generation soon extinguished..

I think you absolutely get a point!

We are getting more and more into a world where people are no longer used to bear the consequences out of their own doing and where things like „respect“ are no longer of any value.

I also get the point that people need to take a lot of effort to earn their „merits“ in the military as well as in most parts of their daily life. And I see that people might be upset if someone uses insignia they themselves earned the hard way to get anything out of it like some free lunch, to make a joke or to get any courtesy serving persons might get. I get the point behind „stolen valor“ and I miss such a concept especially in Germany where people usually make a joke about „serving citizens“ no matter whether they serve in the Military, Police, Firefighter, …

I turn 60 this year and my parents teached me to respect other people in common but elder people in particular. I tried to hand down that education to my daughter and observing her behaviour I see she is a respectful person.

In my opinion there is 2 kinds of respect: the respect someone should get „per say“ just for being an individual and the respect you earn through your actions (either social and professional).

„Give respect - get respect“ is my „motto“ and it usually works. I talk to the janitor the same way I interact with the head of the development dept. and I expect people around me do the same.

Anyway nowadays I experience more and more the youngster do no longer understand the „concept“ of respect. All social life is based on this concept and the more the younger generations turn into selfish and narcissistic egomaniacs the faster our culture will go down …

Sorry for the monologue. In a nutshell: we are on the same page …

 

[Pilot]

I think you absolutely get a point!

We are getting more and more into a world where people are no longer used to bear the consequences out of their own doing and where things like „respect“ are no longer of any value.

I also get the point that people need to take a lot of effort to earn their „merits“ in the military as well as in most parts of their daily life. And I see that people might be upset if someone uses insignia they themselves earned the hard way to get anything out of it like some free lunch, to make a joke or to get any courtesy serving persons might get. I get the point behind „stolen valor“ and I miss such a concept especially in Germany where people usually make a joke about „serving citizens“ no matter whether they serve in the Military, Police, Firefighter, …

I turn 60 this year and my parents teached me to respect other people in common but elder people in particular. I tried to hand down that education to my daughter and observing her behaviour I see she is a respectful person.

In my opinion there is 2 kinds of respect: the respect someone should get „per say“ just for being an individual and the respect you earn through your actions (either social and professional).

„Give respect - get respect“ is my „motto“ and it usually works. I talk to the janitor the same way I interact with the head of the development dept. and I expect people around me do the same.

Anyway nowadays I experience more and more the youngster do no longer understand the „concept“ of respect. All social life is based on this concept and the more the younger generations turn into selfish and narcissistic egomaniacs the faster our culture will go down …

Sorry for the monologue. In a nutshell: we are on the same page …

Well said Thomas!
Spot on as usual!

 

[Monsoon]

Main thing everyone is missing is this:

Did you give it to her yet and does she like it?

 

[usafwso]

Gents,

i found this CWU "as is" fully patched and i'm wondering whether the combination of patches makes sense to you or looks rather like someone patched her "post issue" or after demob

Any hints or opinions appreciated

The American flag on the flight jacket or flight suit is an AMC type thing. ACC does not wear a flag on their flight suits or jackets, at least in my own experience. Furthermore, the patches are sewn on rather than attached with velcro. The exception to that rule are the rank insignia. A brown aircrew name tag is mainly used on the AWFUL junky leather A-2 jackets. Most aircrew name tags went to embroidered fabric back in the 1990's. Normally, with ACC with wing patch is where the American flag is and the squadron patch on the right side as shown here. There are exemptions to these rules and unit commanders have "some" latitude for variations in this manner. It's been a while since leaving the USAF myself and very lastly, I should mention that most patches these days on utility uniforms are subdued but then again recently saw quite the opposite.