Bomber question

[Stony]

I know that they had a relief tube, but I'm not sure about the solids. Maybe some sort of a "thunder mug" with a lid that was disposed of after landing. Maybe they opened the bomb bay doors and sent a little something extra with the bomb load.

 

[John Lever]

I know that they had a relief tube, but I'm not sure about the solids. Maybe some sort of a "thunder mug" with a lid that was disposed of after landing. Maybe they opened the bomb bay doors and sent a little something extra with the bomb load.

I just tried to read this out to my family and nearly pi**ed myself laughing.
Will at Aero once told me that most if not all sheepskin trousers stink of urine. Hardly surprising really.

 

[rich]

Is there a toilet inside the bomber?
I was talking to my colleague this morning asking the same question.
His father was WWII pilot. He can not remember what his father told him exactly but his father told him some of his flights like 12 hours!
Must very tough for them on a long flight mission?

RAF bombers had a chemical toilet to the rear of the fuselage, called an Elsan. Crew members were not expected to leave their
stations to use it when the aircraft was at its most vulnerable. In his book 'the Eighth Passenger' Miles Tripp was the bomb aimer of his Lancaster and he used to fly the aircraft if the pilot went aft to relieve himself. On ops though his pilot peed into a can which would then be tipped out through one of the chutes. There must have been a lot of difficulties involved due to the effects of the extreme cold on the male anatomy combined with the struggle against all those layers of clothing - hence the bad smelling trousers John mentions.

 

[DJS48]

I believe the B-17's, B-24 and B-29 had a toilet in the aircraft. It was essentially a "can" as well as a relief tube for #1 or whatever. I am certain many other multi-engined AAF aircraft had similar arrangements. Rumor was the first person to use the "can" had to empty it. The C-130's and 141's of yesteryear had a "can" set-up too. However, when carrying regular passengers, the 141 was set up with a "comfort pallet", which was the same as an airliner at the time. I hope this info quells that "burning" desire for "knowledge."

Regards,
Don

 

[zoomer]

The can had a toilet seat affixed, and a wax paper liner.

There is a story about trying to find a workaround to digging around in one's kit to pee at altitude. The CO appointed a Group Pee Officer, charged with procuring enough condoms for every crewman to wear one in flight.

Who knows, maybe peeing your shearlings added a little much needed warmth in the air.

 

[Chris217]

Could you image being hit with a bout of diarrhea at 25,000 ft in a ball turrent?

 

[airfrogusmc]

The pilots had piss tubes on CH-46D & Fs. Aircrew was SOL.

 

[Anonymous]

The pilot of the B17 Squawkin chicken Dewayne Bennet definately had a toilet in his plane the toilet belonged to the commanding officer .The book calls the toilet the glob dropper ,it was set up in the aircraft bomb bay ,the cistern was filled with napalm and the flush handle was attached to bailing wire , the captain would have the plane flown by the co pilot .The ball turret gunner was alerted to point his guns downward keep his eyes open The bomb bay doors were opened .This was done in an area of where the Me 109s were seen to be attacking b17 formations .The ball turret gunner reported over the intercom her comes one ,the Me 109 started climing coming at our belly ,the ball turret gunner yelled now the bailing wire was pulled. The ball turret brought the guns up and started firing ,the tracers ignited the jellied gasoline ,looking down I saw and orange flash and the fabric burned off the control surfaces and the pilot wiggling his stick wondering what happened to his control .The bombardier had beautiful view of the pilot and he reported a puzzled look on his face as the german fighter fell off on its wing the pilot bailed out .
The crew of the Squawkin Chicken took out five enemy fighters this way ,they were with 384th bg 545th squadron

Taken from the book Stories of a B17 bomber pilot ,Dewayne "ben" Bennett Squawkin Chicken Skipper .ISBN 978-1-4116-0125-3 Id:277432 WWW>lulu.com .
Truth is stranger than fiction .All the best Jeff

 

[zoomer]

Here's the Group Pee story. From Retired Officer Magazine, Jan. 2002. The 614th BS was part of the 401st BG, out of Deenthorpe, Northants.

Lois Eveland submitted this story from the memoirs of her late husband, Col. Ivan Wayne Eveland, USAF. Lois lives in Helena, Mont., with a golden retriever named Honey Girl.

During World War II, I was a bomber pilot and squadron commander in the 614th Bombardment Squadron flying out of England. The B-17 bomber was designed for very long missions, and the designers did a great job, but the men who flew them were themselves created with limitations. Among these was the need to relieve oneself at reasonable intervals, especially during combat situations.

The B-17 had a relief tube located at each crew station. It consisted of a funnel attached to a rubber hose, which drained outside the airplane. This worked fine at low altitudes, but at high altitudes where the unpressurized bombers usually flew missions, temperatures were 30 degrees to 50 degrees below zero. Any fluid in the tubes froze eventually, rendering the relief tube inoperable. The result was that many crewmen were hospitalized for frostbite, not only of the hands and feet but also of other vital areas.

To avoid this, some crewmen used their flak helmets as receptacles, but this was definitely a sanitary problem. Our group commander, Col. Hal Bowman, had an epiphany late one night: Why not issue crewmen on each mission a few condoms to carry until needed to heed a nudge from nature? As he said, "Overzealous planners supplied us with enough condoms to last through World War X!"

Bowman phoned Maj. Julius Pickoff, waking him and appointing him group pee officer. He told Pickoff he wanted 2,000 condoms delivered the next morning. Not surprisingly, he had trouble convincing Pickoff he was serious, but Bowman managed to get his message across. Pickoff phoned the supply officer, but the sleepy supply officer didn't believe it, saying, "That dirty old man," and hanging up. Pickoff had to go pull him out of bed to get the condoms to the flight crews in time for the briefing.

Bowman's ingenious solution seemed to have worked. Once a condom was used for relief, it could be set on the floor and within minutes would be frozen solid. While flying over Germany, crewmen threw them overboard as frozen missiles.

Unfortunately, our plane was shot down during a bombing mission over France. While escaping with the help of the French underground, I worried about those blasted condoms. I knew my belongings would be packed up by my adjutant, Dick Mettlen, and be forwarded to my wife as next of kin. I hoped he would go through the pockets of my flight suit and remove any condoms—because I was sure he would realize what a nasty shock seeing those would be to her. After all, she knew nothing about condoms being associated with bomber missions.

I'm happy to report that I made it back to my outfit and made a point of telling my wife what the condom was carried for. Some say it was the specter of having a frozen ball of you-know-what crashing through the roofs of German houses that brought the war to a speedier end. I doubt that. But I do know that the 10 men of my crew were very grateful for a device that had a use no one ever dreamed of—especially my wife.

Maj. Julius (Pick) Pickoff, 401st Group Lead Bombardier and Pee Officer.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I know that they had a relief tube, but I'm not sure about the solids. Maybe some sort of a "thunder mug" with a lid that was disposed of after landing. Maybe they opened the bomb bay doors and sent a little something extra with the bomb load.

At that speed everything blows back in on ya.

 

[Anonymous]

There must have been a lot of difficulties involved due to the effects of the extreme cold on the male anatomy combined with the struggle against all those layers of clothing - hence the bad smelling trousers John mentions.

Having worked in the so-called 'Frozen North' for several winters doing seismic exploration (my claim to fame being that I've peed when it's been cold enough to freeze before it hits the ground), I can tell you that peeing and dumping at VERY cold temperatures can be quite easily done - albeit somewhat an accelerated process ! However, peeing into your clothing at those temperatures would have been a killer as it could freeze and at the very least it would conduct a LOT of heat from you.

What might happen with electrically heated trousers ?????????? Could be nasty

You would at least hope that the trousers were an individual issue item and that you wouldn't get someone elses trousers each time you flew ! YUK !! :?

Dave

 

[Andrew]

The old story about pee'd in Irvin trousers may be based on fact, I 've heard it many times before as well, but personally I think it's one of those things that gets passed around as gospel when it probably only happened under extreme duress- shot up etc. These things have two large easily accessible zips.

Even though they arrived back at the base in the early hours Crews still had to go straight to interrogation often done by women- I doubt you'd voluntarily front up with wet dacks. Flying kit was by owner and kept in individual lockers only accessed when required for a mission.

I'm due for a meeting soon with an Vet who flew Halifaxes over Germany- i'll be sure to ask this one...

 

[rich]

A story I have read a few times is of the the aircrew ritual when they would relieve their bladders on the tail wheel before boarding the a/c. I think this was generally frowned upon because eventually it would lead to corrosion and failure of the wheel on landing.
In all the photos I have seen, I've rarely come across many aircrew in full Irvinsuit, I wonder how many aircrew even wore the trousers regularly? When there was no choice I guess a man's got to do etc. but I'm sure Andrew is right, they would only have done so when absolutely under duress. Certain foods were definitely avoided in the pre-flight meal and I'm sure they must have minimized fluid intakes for the same kinds of reasons.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I reckon that the tail gunner (no rear gunners on here please! ) would have worn the full suit and would have been particularly prone to wetting himself as once aloft, he was stuck in that turret. I'm sure nerves and copious amounts of tea in Thermos wouldn't have helped either. I'm particularly referring to RAF aircrew as the bombers like the Lancaster (whilst more effective and efficient ) were somewhat more primative in crew comfort .

(Dave dons M-3 flak helmet as he awaits those with no sense of humour to personally insult him over remarks about RAF Vs USAAF which were made in with tongue FIRMLY in cheek ).

Dave

 

[rich]

Weren't Taylor suits more commonplace by the time Lancs were in service Dave? ( Not that that would have helped with the ... ermmm ... matter in hand )

 

[Anonymous]

You're probably right on that Rich. I claim no extensive authority on what was worn exactly when. Although I daresay that it would be possible to find all sorts of combinations. Might be that the photos I was particularly trying to recall were Wimpy tail gunners.

I imagine that Defiant gunners had a tough time too ! Perhaps milk bottles were the order of the day back then as plastic milk containers (the 4 pint variety in the UK) would be now ?

Are Sorties these days so short that this isn't an issue for jet jockies in their speed jeans ?

Dave