Aniline Dyed A-2

[arclight]

Hello all,
How do you guys protect your aniline dyed jackets from water spots? I have a new Eastman aniline dyed Bronco A-2 and got caught in a rain shower 2 days ago. The jacket exhibits some darker spots from the rain even though it's fully dried out.
I always been satisfied using Bickmore Bick 4 Leather Conditioner on all my leather products. One of the few conditioners that does not darken the leather, nor is it greasy and it doesn't leave a shiny appearance.
This is my first full aniline dyed jacket and I'm quite put off with it's inability to handle a light rain. I'd like to apply something to prevent this from happening again.
Thank you for your responses.

 

[Grant]

Have you tried contacting Eastman directly??

 

[Garylafortuna]

It might be prudent to have a talk with the folks at Eastman before you do anything else. The options might be a sealer from a leather supply company; I believe Tandy Leather carries such products. About six months ago I dyed a jacket that was originally a dark yellow to a medium brown using a water based dye. Following the advice of someone who knows leather pretty good, (it could have been right here on VLJ), I applied a couple of coats of shoe polish to act as a sealer. As the jacket has not yet experienced a rain shower, I cannot comment on the efficacy of such a treatment. It may be a temporary solution at best. It certainly looks really good. Hope to have been of some help.

 

[arclight]

Have you tried contacting Eastman directly??

Probably the best idea, Grant....Thank you.

 

[arclight]

It might be prudent to have a talk with the folks at Eastman before you do anything else. The options might be a sealer from a leather supply company; I believe Tandy Leather carries such products. About six months ago I dyed a jacket that was originally a dark yellow to a medium brown using a water based dye. Following the advice of someone who knows leather pretty good, (it could have been right here on VLJ), I applied a couple of coats of shoe polish to act as a sealer. As the jacket has not yet experienced a rain shower, I cannot comment on the efficacy of such a treatment. It may be a temporary solution at best. It certainly looks really good. Hope to have been of some help.

Thanks Gary!

 

[SuinBruin]

I didn't know Eastman made a Bronco A-2; got any photos? Thanks!

 

[Steve27752]

I didn't know Eastman made a Bronco A-2; got any photos? Thanks!

They do not make a Bronco.

 

[arclight]

Very sorry, guys....huge mistake on my part. The jacket is not (obviously ) a Bronco, but a Monarch. Guess my mind was somewhere else.
I rec'd a prompt and courteous response from Gary this morning:

......"Yes, don't worry about that, it's perfectly normal for aniline leather to do that, especially noticeable if it's a lighter shade (like the Monarch). You can put conditioner on to help blend it, but what you will find the more you wear it the marks will just blend naturally on their own anyway. It all merges into one and will give your jacket a lovely vintage looking patina. My advice is don't worry about getting it wet, and wear it as much as you can as this is what will make your jacket look better and better with regards to vintage patina. Occasionally put some conditioner on it if you get it wet regularly - this will keep the leather nourished. "
Best regards,
Gary

Now I know.....hopefully Gary's response will help others down the road.

 

[dmar836]

Good advice from Gary. I was going to suggest crawling under a car or two or do a brake job while wearing it. Works for me!

About six months ago I dyed a jacket that was originally a dark yellow to a medium brown using a water based dye. Following the advice of someone who knows leather pretty good, (it could have been right here on VLJ), I applied a couple of coats of shoe polish to act as a sealer. As the jacket has not yet experienced a rain shower, I cannot comment on the efficacy of such a treatment. It may be a temporary solution at best. It certainly looks really good. Hope to have been of some help.

Is there a thread on this one? Might be a good one to follow.

Dave

 

[Grant]

ARC,
I second what Gary said. My ELC Cable (also made from lighter russet color) has gotten large water spots from cycling in the rain along with road grit and grime. By just wearing the hell out of it after it dried has caused the dark areas to blend in and are hardly noticeable.

 

[Silver Surfer]

since the inception of the "war horse" hh, i have wondered if the hides were of an oil-pull type. reason being that the spotting that you guys are writing about, and the way it reacts to abrasion. most if not all veg aniline hh will reveal the light undyed color underneath the wear [like original a-2s], but the "war horse only does so until it is rubbed of kneaded. then, if anything, i will then get darker. this is something i have seen with oil-pull hides. btw, when my originals get wet, and it happens, the resulting spots or spotting either fades away completely or there is a very feint outline of where the water was. when i write feint, i mean that you have to look long and hard for it. eventually, it goes away.

 

[Skip]

Interesting you mention that Silver. My war horse Werber has been getting some abrasion on the back and elbows from use while wearing it as Dave mentioned above by working in the garage. Some marks looked as if they'd scratched beyond tanned leather but when you rub them it seems to 'fill' them in with the colour again, although not completely.

 

[Ole]

......"Yes, don't worry about that, it's perfectly normal for aniline leather to do that, especially noticeable if it's a lighter shade (like the Monarch). You can put conditioner on to help blend it, but what you will find the more you wear it the marks will just blend naturally on their own anyway. It all merges into one and will give your jacket a lovely vintage looking patina. My advice is don't worry about getting it wet, and wear it as much as you can as this is what will make your jacket look better and better with regards to vintage patina. Occasionally put some conditioner on it if you get it wet regularly - this will keep the leather nourished. "
Best regards,
Gary

since the inception of the "war horse" hh, i have wondered if the hides were of an oil-pull type. reason being that the spotting that you guys are writing about, and the way it reacts to abrasion. most if not all veg aniline hh will reveal the light undyed color underneath the wear [like original a-2s], but the "war horse only does so until it is rubbed of kneaded. then, if anything, i will then get darker. this is something i have seen with oil-pull hides. btw, when my originals get wet, and it happens, the resulting spots or spotting either fades away completely or there is a very feint outline of where the water was. when i write feint, i mean that you have to look long and hard for it. eventually, it goes away.

Have once bought a used warhorse ELC RW 27752 from ebay and then sold right after. The reason? Apart from the cut, the leather did not appear at all like that of original A-2s. OK, grainy but this aniline leather soaking when wet leaving spots and all, I am sorry my original 1756 is like waterproof compared to that. My 2 cents? Originals were not aniline bro. They advertise exact WWII A-2 jacket reproductions and they can't get their leather right. Since when they were established? 1984? and they still can't get it right? It's 34 years that passed man, that's a really loooooooooong time man, no excuse for that.

But then again they're not the only ones who use aniline...

Neither A-2s nor USN jackets were aniline.

Nice jackets from the repro makers OK, but not "exact repros", give me a break.

 

[Silver Surfer]

aero aniline, bk aniline,, gw aniline,, japanese makers aniline do not seem to have those issues. i believe it to be unique to elc, and other oil-pull jackets.

 

[Ole]

I guess most people in here (and elsewhere) don't have a clue what aniline is.

Aniline leather is leather dyed with "transparent" dyes.
Since they are transparent, they allow light to run through the leather surface and so you can see "deeper" below the top surface of the leather and this is what people sometimes refer to as rich and "deep" color. Aniline leather is also called unfinished leather. The below image explains it well, I think.

Unlike, pigment leather in which the pigmented particles do not allow light to pass through and that's why what you see is a solid color (i.e. the case with WWII original A-2 jackets).

Unfinished leather is also unprotected from the elements except in some cases where they use a clear coating on top. I have a friend who works for a tannery and he told me all about it. He also told me what the clear coating is but I can't remember how it is called.

That seems to be the case with the Japanese and GW leathers, they have the clear coating as opposed to ELC that do not.
But the clear coating does not stay on forever, it disappears with wear so after a couple of years of wearing the alinine leather goes unprotected again and will stain from raindrops and such.

Oil pull is something different.

 

[Ole]

just remembered, it's polyurethane

 

[dmar836]

LOL. Mine survived a shower from the plasma cutter last eve. Wish I had pics. Interestingly, this is not an ELC, etc. but IIRC was made of 2.5ish oz aniline dyed "pull-up" so oil pull cow hide. I smelled burnt hair on the way home but couldn't find it on me. When I put the jacket back on I smelled it again. So I guess oil pull leather will smell like burning hair if subjected to proper abuse. Who knew?
Maybe this should be in a "how to dry" thread?
Where 'em hard!
Dave
P.S. the same A-2 was worn to church that same morning!

 

[Dr H]

Both are based on protein chains so what you’re smelling are the products of protein combustion rather than hair...

 

[gramballard]

It's interesting that the original A-2 specification called for chrome tanned leather yet almost all high-end reproduction jackets are made of veg-tanned and aniline dyed hides. I think the issue has always been the starting point of the repro manufacturers trying to capture the spirit of products which are now relatively old with eventual wear and patina.

If we were to travel back in time and see rack after rack of box fresh A-2 jackets, chrome-tanned and pigment finished we might all be alarmed at how different they are in character to our idealised vision of what a great A-2 'should' be. They would have the characterless appearance of what we might deride as Mall Jackets yet that's in all probability exactly how they looked when new. It seems we as consumers want something which is in many ways a paradox: brand new but with character, luxurious in terms of material yet utilitarian.

A military leather jacket should be capable of withstanding a shower of rain. My sister works with tanneries all over the world as an accessories designer. She was extremely puzzled when I showed her a newly purchased A-2 made in a beautiful veg-tanned Shinki horsehide saying that it was a great material for furniture but precisely the wrong kind of leather for a jacket.

 

[Ole]

yes, it is quite unfortunate. I have heard that some makers use upholstery leather, others use footwear leather (jackets with thick leather that stand on their own) etc. Only a two or three of makers, maybe, use leathers custom made for them. One of them is ELC, who in 34 years failed to get it right, so I suppose, either they don't know what leathers to go for, or intentionally don't want to make A-2 jackets with leathers that resembles the originals...

The answer why they don't use chromium tanned is easy. My friend says tanneries don't seem to offer chome tanned. They offer only veg-tanned because it's more expensive naturally. Some maker I know, whose prices hit the ceiling as it is, if he could find chrome tanned he would probably sell it at higher price than veg tanned, because it would be more historically accurate, I guess.

But you couldn't tell chrome vs veg tanned by looking at the leathers with naked eye, ask your sister.