506 PIR A-2 style jacket. Real or fake ?

[Peter Graham]

Spotted this. A hefty start price. A did a quick google search for Grais leather and they appeared to only exist in the 40's and 50's, but it was a quick search. What do you guys reckon ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-A2-Sty ... 3f21233069

 

[a2jacketpatches]

This civy a2 was privayely purchased and hand painted by the only LT. in the 506th PIR that wasn't issued insignia. I got it 8 years ago from a guy who lived.... and he got it from his girlfriends, grandmothers, half brothers sister-in-laws, best friends, cousin, who got it from a neighbor. And it's re-listed because the winner couldn't pay. :lol:

Anybody interested in my pouch of magic beans before I list them?

 

[havocpaul]

Fake IMO, the age-old tale of an item of Airborne uniform coming from a local farmer in Normandy/Carentan/ Bastogne (choose one of the listed)! If it were the real deal I know of at least a couple of 101st collectors who'd have snapped it up immediately for sure.

 

[dujardin]

my nose tell me it's a fake

 

[Rutger]

Well, nowhere is he claiming it to be an Original A2 Flight Jacket from someone who served in the 101st, but rather an Original A2 Style Flight Jacket that has period markings applied to it that may well have been applied in that era.
So he isn't advertising a fake as such.
The wording may lead some people to believe they are about to acquire an original WWII A2 jacket from a member from the 101st. It may well be a period-original jacket, and it is marked to said unit, and the markings may well have been applied back in the (late) forties.
But if you confront him with a counter claim, he'll just say that he didn't actually make any claims.
His expert: the sales guy of a vintage clothing shop whom he bought it from?

To me he sounds like a used cars dealer of the lesser conscientious type.

Some people just so much wanna buy a fairy tale, and if it is expensive, it gotta be good, right?

 

[Roughwear]

Well, nowhere is he claiming it to be an Original A2 Flight Jacket from someone who served in the 101st, but rather an Original A2 Style Flight Jacket that has period markings applied to it that may well have been applied in that era.
So he isn't advertising a fake as such.
The wording may lead some people to believe they are about to acquire an original WWII A2 jacket from a member from the 101st. It may well be a period-original jacket, and it is marked to said unit, and the markings may well have been applied back in the (late) forties.
But if you confront him with a counter claim, he'll just say that he didn't actually make any claims.
His expert: the sales guy of a vintage clothing shop whom he bought it from?

To me he sounds like a used cars dealer of the lesser conscientious type.

Some people just so much wanna buy a fairy tale, and if it is expensive, it gotta be good, right?

I would second this. The jacket most likely dates from the late 40s/early '50s and may well have been decorated by a vet from the 101st.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I would second this. The jacket most likely dates from the late 40s/early '50s and may well have been decorated by a vet from the 101st.[/quote]

I'd never question you on any jacket, but there's a very slim chance this was decorated by a 101st vet, and an overwhelming likelihood that it was faked at any given time in between the date of jacket mfg. and two weeks ago. The aged look of the paintings is a very simple thing to do. It may well have been decorated by a vet, but most likely not. Something like this would be rare as hens teeth especially from the 506th, gotta wonder how it ended up in the hands of an Ebayer selling sneakers and a watch.

 

[Robman]

Most likely a fake but not as rare as people think. Airborne personnel obtained and wore A2s quite often. Numerous photos to support it as well.

Their useage was probably due to the fact that when the airborne idea with the US Army was initially being considered the thought was to put them in the air corps like the German airborne which fell under the command of the Luftewaffe.

 

[Roughwear]

I would second this. The jacket most likely dates from the late 40s/early '50s and may well have been decorated by a vet from the 101st.

I'd never question you on any jacket, but there's a very slim chance this was decorated by a 101st vet, and an overwhelming likelihood that it was faked at any given time in between the date of jacket mfg. and two weeks ago. The aged look of the paintings is a very simple thing to do. It may well have been decorated by a vet, but most likely not. Something like this would be rare as hens teeth especially from the 506th, gotta wonder how it ended up in the hands of an Ebayer selling sneakers and a watch.[/quote]


I agree there is a very slim chance the jacket was decorated by a vet from the 101st. Of course the artwork may well have been executed to deceive and inflate its price.

 

[ausreenactor]

Any 101st guy with the pride to adorn a jacket with his unit insignia would ensure it was in the right place to start. If this was an Officer, he would be highly aware of the 'regulations'...

Couchy

 

[dujardin]

i follow you Couchy

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Most likely a fake but not as rare as people think. Airborne personnel obtained and wore A2s quite often. Numerous photos to support it as well.

Their useage was probably due to the fact that when the airborne idea with the US Army was initially being considered the thought was to put them in the air corps like the German airborne which fell under the command of the Luftewaffe.

No, AB officers were issued A2's from time to time, but not on a regular basis. They also got them many other ways. Maybe an idea bounced around initially about paratroopers being part of the AAF, I don't know. But they were the Army as a Parachute Infantry Regiment (PIR) and that's all there is to that. A2's in the AB had nothing to do with them almost being AAF.

And absolutely as rare as people may think. An item like this is unheard of, especially after the HBO series and in the hands of a weekend Ebayer peddling a little of this and that. In my 15 years of hunting everything military, every weekend, at estate sales, Flea markets, and through my ads to the vets themselves, I ran across 1 M42 Jump Jacket and some glider patches. Anyone who gives this one the benefit of the doubt is the exact reason it was made to begin with.

And Couchy is dead on right, that eagle should be 1/2 below the seam, period...

 

[Robman]

Wow.

I am aware that the 506 PIR was an army regiment.

Perhaps I should clarify. Airborne officers wearing a2s was not uncommon. Maybe finding originals after 70 years is rare. B10s were also quite popular with airborne officers. I have a photo of Lt. Col. Kinnard of the 101st wearing a B3 at Bastogne.

Looking at my post I realize I meant to say possibly not probably when referring to the AAF......my mistake.

Sorry I mentioned it.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Nicely clarified,

I said "something like this is rare as hens teeth" meaning a hand painted private purchase A2 jacket decorated for the 506th PIR, what this post is about. Paratrooper items are super rare to begin with. But this, IF real? I think it's safe to say that this item would be sooooo rare, that it just isn't real. And something tells me an AB vet LT. wouldn't plaster his combat patches and rank post war all over a civy jacket. Besides being blatantly against all regulations, he'd have more class than that.

I don't contest that it was a popular item among WW2 AB officers at all, in fact, fairly common. The 502nd even had a leather patch specifically for their A2's. So forgive if I seemed to question your knowledge on the uniform of the WW2 AB officer. I'm simply referring to the particular jacket in this post and the probability, not possibility that it is a fake. Really, I was clearly talking about the jacket in question and tried not to stray.

 

[Robman]

My apologies for being testy or coming off that way kind sir. Had a bad week!

You are right about one thing for sure. Band of Brothers caused a lot of fakes to be passed off as real and the fixation with the 506!

I don't think the item in question is real but having said that I didn't think cowhide a2s were either! lol

By the way are you referring to the 502's "widow maker" patch....it is definitely cool!

 

[a2jacketpatches]

If this was an air Corps jacket, I wouldn't be so sure because regs were so loose. Being AB is a different story, those guys were sharp. Cowhide issued jackets I can believe, Civilian non issued jackets with painted Airborne patches and LT. bars , I cannot. Here's the 502nd a2 patch -

 

[dmar836]

What I can't believe is that a proud AB guy would purchase or recieive a PP jacket, then, private or otherwise, pay or take the time to decorate it, have it catch up to him with his other kit, and choose the jacket as the most appropriate thing to give to a female civilian? As if he knew it would become collectible in 50yrs. First, from her viewpoint, having it could put her and her family at risk, and second, she would likely rather have food, linens, or other provisions. Not impossible but only with a pic of him holding it with her and a letter or something.
There are many helmets and other items that fakers add "found in a cellar in Normandy..." or "found in a barn in Belgium...". And my favorite, "...bought at an outdoor flea market in Normandy in the 70s/80s..."
Let's hear the part where he gave his jump boots and CIB to the kids since he was out of candy.
Again, might be authentic but until its aledged owners, likely passed away, show up it's just as real as a flea market find with someone like me who could know just enough how to paint and weather it... just without the ethics.

 

[Peter Graham]

What I can't believe is that a proud AB guy would purchase or recieive a PP jacket, then, private or otherwise, pay or take the time to decorate it, have it catch up to him with his other kit, and choose the jacket as the most appropriate thing to give to a female civilian? As if he knew it would become collectible in 50yrs. First, from her viewpoint, having it could put her and her family at risk, and second, she would likely rather have food, linens, or other provisions. Not impossible but only with a pic of him holding it with her and a letter or something.
There are many helmets and other items that fakers add "found in a cellar in Normandy..." or "found in a barn in Belgium...". And my favorite, "...bought at an outdoor flea market in Normandy in the 70s/80s..."
Let's hear the part where he gave his jump boots and CIB to the kids since he was out of candy.
Again, might be authentic but until its aledged owners, likely passed away, show up it's just as real as a flea market find with someone like me who could know just enough how to paint and weather it... just without the ethics.

Yeah, that just about sums up my feelings on it. Someone has won this jacket for £600. Good luck to them.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Some guy just bought the jacket, to win, you'd need competition. That about says it all for this, unless it is listed again because the buyer (SHILL BIDDER) did not pay......again :roll:

 

[unclegrumpy]

You guys have said it all.....I am not sure how anyone could believe this one..... :lol: