TYPE A-1 Dateline

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Just as a crazy guess: maybe the AAC figured the'y be less likely to rip off with use if they were stitched all the way thru?

That wouldn't make any difference

 

[zoomer]

So why change the spec based on a mistake?

 

[Geeboo]

very few original A-1 photos can be located on web. Can someone post some more original A-1 details shot, not portrait/ group shot - for sharing pls ?
Because I saw in Headwind site that the pocket is not sewn through but it claimed it is an exact copy of Gordon & Ferguson 31-800P A-1. Goodwear & Eastman seems to have sewn through pocket , as Ken said - the 2nd version - which is "more original" ??

 

[Skyhawk]

We have been upgrading our A-1 lately with more period correct buttons and new Choices of Capeskin. The sewn through pockets are on the list as well. I hope to have updated pictures on the site very soon. It is really just our Capeskin tanning that is holding it up now.

Regards,
Jay

 

[Geeboo]

Is there a contractor list in that famous "book" ? I think it is a good start about the timeline

 

[zoomer]

Also, and I hate to think this way, but maybe the owners of such superrarities consider the jackets' method of construction to be their personal intellectual property?

(I have run into this attitude with 78rpm collectors who refuse to share/post .mp3 copies of the music because the disc, as an artifact, is too valuable to them. Well hey? Ever hear of a thing called advertising? The more that people know about a rare thing, the more it's worth!)

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

So why change the spec based on a mistake?

It would depend how many were initially made without pockets.
It's not a huge job to add two pockets without opening the lining, but it is just pure "Amateur Night" in the clothing factory.
Better than scrapping a whole delivery though

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Consider this.
Original factorydelivers a few sample jackets,no pockets.
AC places large(ish) order
Maker delivers large number of pocket-less jackets
Top Brass spots "error", excrement hits fan
Invoice hasn't been paid yet, so delivery is returned.
Factory panic, add a pocket onto of the finished jacket and return it for approval
AC are happy with the result,not being tailors they don't notice the glaring error in construction.
Factory breathe a huge sigh of relief
Everyone's a winner (As we say in this parish)
"Error" like fokelore becomes "the norm" until a new manufacturer (whoever that was) corrects the fitting procedure

Repro makers, being constrained by historical accuracy, go on repeating the "fix"

This is why Aero have never been keen on reproducing, we prefer to work on Civvy styles where we have input.

 

[johnwayne]

Hmm, my first repro A2 is a very early house ELC that I've had since early 90's and the left pocket stitching is deteriorating - maybe I can hand stitch through existing holes and lining now and not feel so bad!

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Also, and I hate to think this way, but maybe the owners of such superrarities consider the jackets' method of construction to be their personal intellectual property?

(I have run into this attitude with 78rpm collectors who refuse to share/post .mp3 copies of the music because the disc, as an artifact, is too valuable to them. Well hey? Ever hear of a thing called advertising? The more that people know about a rare thing, the more it's worth!)

We recently bought a rare 30s Suede US Suede jacket complete with Patent number, from which we found full set of design drawings and patent applications on the liner construction.
From memory that's the first patented clothing design I've come across.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Hmm, my first repro A2 is a very early house ELC that I've had since early 90's and the left pocket stitching is deteriorating - maybe I can hand stitch through existing holes and lining now and not feel so bad!

There were plenty field repairs done that way during WW2
Bloodchits used as pockets, if not hand sewn to the liner were almost always sewn right throught shell and liner

 

[zoomer]

We recently bought a rare 30s Suede US Suede jacket complete with Patent number, from which we found full set of design drawings and patent applications on the liner construction.
From memory that's the first patented clothing design I've come across.

I’ll post Max Werber’s patents for a car coat with fold up leggings and a pieced front jacket with hand warmers. both from 1928-29...

 

[zoomer]

Looks like I posted those in Jan. 2011...
Researching Werber Co.

 

[33-1729]

Is there a contractor list in that famous "book" ? I think it is a good start about the timeline

I highly recommend Mr. Eastman’s excellent reference book “Type A-2 Flight Jacket Identification Manual”. While his book is focused on A-2 history it also contains more about the A-1 in a few pages than I’ve seen anywhere else. Mine is falling apart from use. With that and some more ...

Mr. Eastman has a paper trail to identify only two A-1 production manufacturers and they are Gordon & Ferguson, Inc. (St. Paul., Minn.) and A. Pritzker Co. (Boston, Mass.). The company of Guiterman Bros. (St. Paul, Minn.) supplied test samples in 1927 and was purchased by Gordon & Ferguson in 1928/29. All three were well known leather jacket manufacturers at the time, so I wouldn’t expect one of them to design a poor pocket stitch. No doubt, there may have been other A-1 production manufacturers.

It appears the A-1 production jacket was only made in cape-skin, with the A-2 switching to the more rugged horsehide leather. Timely complaints on the A-1 where found about the cuffs and collar wear, not the pockets. There were dimensional changes to the specification planned for early 1928, but no mention about pockets either. I have no idea how one A-1 contract is differentiated from another as information on the A-1 sways from scant to scarce.

 

[zoomer]

There were dimensional changes to the specification planned for early 1928

What sort of changes? They might help to ID the period, and possibly the spec if more turn up.

Early A-1s had an angled cut to the collars, as can be seen here. May 1929 at left, Oct. '29 at right. This went with a single-button closure with a loop along the edge, rather than two at a right angle to the edge as later.
click to enlarge

This is Lt. Bert Woodring, who is with his plane in the October pic.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

..

Mr. Eastman has a paper trail to identify only two A-1 production manufacturers and they are Gordon & Ferguson, Inc. (St. Paul., Minn.) and A. Pritzker Co. (Boston, Mass.). The company of Guiterman Bros. (St. Paul, Minn.) supplied test samples in 1927 and was purchased by Gordon & Ferguson in 1928/29. All three were well known leather jacket manufacturers at the time, so I wouldn’t expect one of them to design a poor pocket stitch. No doubt, there may have been other A-1 production manufacturers.
.

I think you've slightly missed my point which is the A-1 was originally speced by the AC without pockets.
It would have been a poor design but not of the manufacturers's doing
The pockets I assume were added once the technical error was realised.
There's no other logical explaination, no designer worth his wages would have come up with this set up.
The addition of the pocket sewn to the outside of the completed jackets would have been a quick fix, opening up every jacket to fit them properly would have taken approx four times longer

The other point about when the pockets were fitted is while is quite easy to match the pocket positioning while the front panels are two single pieces, it's a whole lot harder to match the position while attaching them to a completed jacket

 

[Skyhawk]

Are there other examples of the sewn through pocket on any other A-1 jackets. Whether photographic or physical?

If not it could just be the one G&F. Maybe it was a test jacket and the problem was corrected before the contract jackets were all produced. That seems more likely then just doing them all that way.

It could also explain why this jacket survived. Maybe it wasn't used much, or at all as a service jacket.

Just a few theories to discuss....

Regards,
Jay

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Are there other examples of the sewn through pocket on any other A-1 jackets. Whether photographic or physical?

If not it could just be the one G&F. Maybe it was a test jacket and the problem was corrected before the contract jackets were all produced. That seems more likely then just doing them all that way.

It could also explain why this jacket survived. Maybe it wasn't used much, or at all as a service jacket.

Just a few theories to discuss....

Regards,
Jay

The vast majority have sewn through pockets, it's those without any pocket particularily or with a pocket fitted traditionally (like an A-2) that we are looking for.

 

[Skyhawk]

Well if there's actual evidence of that on other jackets and it wasn't just attributed, then that is a different story. I haven't seen other shots of liners on original A-1's other than the G&F with that feature.

I thought I saw a photo of an A-2 style pocket on an A-1 in a photo once. It was a group shot. I will go though the photo archives and see what I can find......

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Well if there's actual evidence of that on other jackets and it wasn't just attributed, then that is a different story. I haven't seen other shots of liners on original A-1's other than the G&F with that feature.

I thought I saw a photo of an A-2 style pocket on an A-1 in a photo once. It was a group shot. I will go though the photo archives and see what I can find......

Jay, you don't need to see the lining to know if the pocket was added after the jacket was made
The way the pockets cover the topstitch on the waistband tell you whether the pocket was added later or not
No need to see the liner