Two G1 and a load of questions !

Discussion in 'General Flight Jacket Discussion' started by Tenfifteen, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Hello there,

    I actually have two G1 and I have some questions for the wise guys who would like to answer me ;)

    The first one is my daily jacket, it's a late Vietnam era Brill Bros. from 1973 as indicated by the label :
    JACKET, FLYERS,
    INTERMEDIATE, TYPE G1
    SIZE 40
    MIL-J-7823E (AS)
    BRILL BROS. INC.
    8415-268-7799
    DSA100-73-C-0035


    Good condition, the leather is pretty supple (far more than my 1963 Irvin B Foster), the lining is like new, the zip as been replace (no name) as the cuffs (darker than the waist band)
    The general color and the dark "faux fur" (I guess) is typical of the post 1970 G1. Found on eBay for 50$.

    My first question is.... is it goatskin or cowhide with a "goatskin alike" grain ?
    Here's some pictures :

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The second is more interesting, it was terrific when I bought it (29$ !!) The leather was stiff, with paint smudges and snags on the leather. But I really loved the color !
    The zip cursor (Conmar) was blocked and the wrists were gone (the waist band is clearly not original, to small) I will replace them, I have some original wool seal brown wrists and waist (with the rib-rack patern)
    I did some works on the leather and the zip (now it's a lot more supple)
    The zip works but the leather is really tight and twisted at the bottom (the first 5 cm) Is there something to do ? (tried some candle wax, it works great at the top of the zipper.. but the bottom is still a pain because of the crumpled leather)
    The tag says :
    JACKET, FLYING, MAN'S
    INTERMEDIATE, TYPE G1
    SPEC.MIL-J7823B (WEP)
    BUREAU OF NAVAL WEAPONS USN
    IRVIN B.FOSTER SPTSWEAR CO.
    CONTRACT NO.DSA-1-2071-63-C
    SIZE 42


    Curiously, the size 42 of the Irvin feels a bit smaler than the size 40 of the Brill Brother !
    I think the late G1s size taller than the old one, did you noticed that or it's my jacket who has shrunk ? :) )

    Unfortunately the picture from the "cuff replacement" post are no more on line.. thanks photobucket.. (http://vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/cuff-replacement-tutorial.6207/)
    I know a shop in Paris that repairs leather jacket.. but I'm afraid they would not do a serious job (sew in the original holes)

    Here's some pictures :

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Thx,
    Stephane
     
  2. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Active Member

    Messages:
    863
    Wise Guy #1
    Ok Steph ....the important thing to remember here is that each of us is going to offer you an opinion.... and not all of us may agree. Here's a brief response with my opinion. The 63 Long and Foster is most likely made from goatskin. While the 73 Brill Bros may also be goat, but it could go either way goat or cowhide pressed to look like goat. If I had to guess from the pictures and the year of production my guess would be goat. ( once again my opinion). Unless someone actually has the jacket in their grimy little paws its pretty difficult to nail down the goat or pressed cowhide issue by a photo. Bottom line...it's nice to know but if it looks good ....does it really matter?
    Regarding the tight leather around the zipper. Most of us use Pecards. It's great for the jacket and will bring back and soften stiff leathers.
    Ok ..... What else ya got!!!:cool:
     
    Tenfifteen likes this.
  3. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Thank you Mr wise guy n°1 :D
    For sure, it doesn't really matter ! As I said, the Brill Bros is my daily jacket, it is as comfortable as a pair of slippers :D
    I've tried a 1968 Martin Lane and an other Foster, they looked great but the Brill Bros. have something special.. it suits me perfectly.
    The grain is very similar to the Foster (and I know that the cowhide is more mid 70's).. but the feeling is totaly different, that's why I'm wondering ;)

    I heard about Pecard (the antique leather dressing) that's almost impossible to find here in france.
    I use some Saphir softener / neatsfoot...
     
  4. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Active Member

    Messages:
    863
    Wise Guy # 1
    Pecards = EBay ;)
     
  5. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Yes ! But all the pecard's box on ebay come from US.. some don't even ship to france and the other have shipping cost for a 1.5 oz twice the price of a 8 oz 100% neatsfoot bottle :D
    But sure I will test one day !!
     
  6. Obscurator

    Obscurator New Member

    Messages:
    6
    I'm in the UK, and buy Pecards from this supplier in England -
    http://www.antiqueleatherdressing.co.uk/

    I have no idea if they will send to France, and what the cost may be. I note on the website that prices have increased, presumably due to the $-£ rate, but you may gain from the present £-Euro rate.

    If you want to investigate further, I've always found them very responsive and helpful.

    Over to you.
     
    Tenfifteen likes this.
  7. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Thank you Obscurator, they ship in europe and it's obviously cheaper than from the US ! it's worth a try !
     
  8. MikeyB-17

    MikeyB-17 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,722
    Location:
    Cornwall, UK
    My first G-1 was a ‘63 Irvin B. Foster just like that-mine was in slightly better nick! G-1 sizes were all over the place-I once had to send back a Gregory Sportswear size 42 which was way too small, despite 42 being my normal size. I’ve lost count of how many G-1’s I’ve had, from a 50’s 7823 (AER) to the Dynel-collared, possibly 80’s no-label one I have now-which despite being cow, has the nicest leather of all of them.
     
    Tenfifteen likes this.
  9. Skip

    Skip Active Member

    Messages:
    849
    Location:
    Great Southern Land
    I can vouch for pecards, it made a crinkly dry stiff m422a come back to life and its still really buttery after 4 years and I haven't touched it with pecards since

    Just a note on Neatsfoot, I'm no expert but learnt from a few auto upholsterers that work in all kinds of leather, that it will eventually weaken and break down leather and stitching, especially if left in the sun (as cars tend to sometimes). Now whether this is fabrication or not, dunno. But there seems to be those that use it and those that don't and both opposing products swear (or should that read market) by their product, and they are both premium brands. If it was me, and the jacket you have is old leather I wouldn't risk it with Neatsfoot (just my opinion that is).

    And another 2 cents worth, I used to use pure lanolin too but after a few applications worked out it was damaging the leather not helping it.

    Best of luck
     
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  10. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Thank you Skip ! Never heard about those issues with the neastfoot.. I use neastfoot with my motorcycle jacket since years and never had those problems.
    But there are modern jackets, not goatskin oldies ! Just tried once on a really old leather (an early 1900' 38 S&W holster) it really does miracle on my old stiff "like stone" leather at this time.
    Once the leather has drank the neastfoot oil it still stiff, I must break the leather (twist and crumple the leather) anf it really get supple.
    As you said, there's always pros and cons for every products ^^ But that's enough arguments for me, I'll try Pecards anthique leather stuff ;)

    So that's done with the Foster jacket, thank you all... does someone has any thought about the Brill bros. type of leather ?
     
  11. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,002
    vaseline works as well, if not better then pecards, due to the fact that it does not leave that tacky feel on the hides. i use it, chappy uses it, as do other collectors. its redilly available, and of course, inexpensive. when a jacket is not only dry, but has lost a lot of its original color, or you wish to give an existing color a little depth, the brown pecards leather dressing works well.
     
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  12. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    That's a good idea, vaseline is really easy to find... I'll try this before buying Pecards ! Super thx Mr Norrin Radd ^^
     
  13. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,002
    ps: when possible always apply your goop on a warm day or in a heated enviroment so that it kinda liquifies and and is absorbed into the hides.
     
  14. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Thanks ! Using gently a hair dryer could help too (that's what i'm doing with wax generaly)
     
  15. Obscurator

    Obscurator New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Tenfifteen and B-Man2 like this.
  16. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    Whoo ! Thank you, that's really fascinating !!!
     
  17. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Active Member

    Messages:
    863
    Great post Obscurator!
     
  18. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    947
    Location:
    Norway
    Skip is completely right, neatsfoot oil will rot stitching over time. Leather likes it, cotton certainly does not.
     
  19. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Active Member

    Messages:
    863
    Never knew John Chapman preferred Vaseline over Pecards.
    Man...I love this forum!!
    Learn something new every day!
     
  20. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Cachan, France
    "sewing machine porn" !!! Love the old fur coats for G1 mouton collars :cool: !
     

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