steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end repros

[kiltie]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Why has "leather" become synonymous with cow or steerhide? Leather is all-encompasing to any hide that is tanned for garment use -- goat, horse, deer, sheep. Let's not perpetuate an odd distinction with the word.

...human skin? AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!

I started reading this thread the day it opened and was a little confused at the original post. The argument for cow is not new to me, but is the Eastman book the only thing being cited in this thread, in terms of "new evidence". Sorry that I'm coming to the game a little late, but I can't see where the numbers are coming from.
I don't especially care the hide from which a jacket is made, beyond personal preference ( and certainly authenticity goes a LONG way in that personal preference, where many are concerned ), but out of a zillion jackets made during the war years, how many were DNA tested in recent years? Across how many makers and contracts? By what impetus ( hmmm... that, of all the jackets I've seen, THAT one looks like cow...) ?
Anecdotal evidence, like the folks working in the factories some years after the fact: they're making a variety of different pieces of gear from a variety of different critters. They were just like the "uninitiated" of today - they didn't know one jacket from another.
Also, would it be safe to assume that all pre-war jackets are made of horse? No duress, for the most part, there...
Again, I'm not terribly wrapped up in the whole thing. I certainly know about trends in culture and hobbies, and I've always found it plenty reasonable to believe that somebody was doing what they had to do for supplies ( hells - look at Aero today. No, on second thought, don't. What a mess for those poor folks...). But what is everybody looking at RIGHT NOW that's different?
I can't score an Eastman book right this particular second, but everything is being stated with a good deal of confidence. Is there another thread? The book thread alludes to some evidence... Somebody TELL MEEEEeeeeeeeeeee.........

 

[Chandler]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

...human skin? AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!

Well, yes -- it's been done by the more unsavory members of our human race.

I can't score an Eastman book right this particular second, but everything is being stated with a good deal of confidence. Is there another thread? The book thread alludes to some evidence... Somebody TELL MEEEEeeeeeeeeeee.........

Same section as this thread we're in now, just up (or down) a couple subject lines: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13696

 

[kiltie]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Si si...

It looks like the big day for "revelations" was the 9th, which I guess I missed. Prior to and after that, it was a lot of attaboys and me too, me too, which I could only read so much of before flying into a jealous rage over not being able to score a copy this go. Thanks.
Roughwear's posts in that thread in particular answered what I was wondering, up to and including some prewar contracts. And as has been stated, it only seems reasonable considering the numbers produced. The whole thing, in fact, sorta answers a thing I'd been wondering about and debating on whether or not to start a thread over: the way some originals have, for lack of a better term, some really "beefy" grain. As opposed to the finer, yet still pronounced grain of horsehide. I suppose I can be satisfied with cow being the answer to that question.
Apologies for the bump in the road due to my inattention. I guess that's what I get for ( gasp ) missing a day. Thanks, Chandler.

 

[arclight]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Thanks for the link Andrew. Just spent a minute looking at some old posts.
This one caught my eye;

"I had a fascinating conversation yesterday with a
woman who worked at the old Aero factory in Beacon, NY
during the war. I asked her if they used only horsehide.
She said they used whatever hides they could get
their hands on, including cow, horse and sheepskins. As
she put it, "there was a war on, so we used whatever
we could get our hands on".<br><br>Grant"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintagele ... essage/931

If one strikes out "Beacon, NY" and inserts "Scotland" and changed the word "war" and substituted "recession", one could say that's how Aero was doing business before it sacked the former Managing Director et al.

 

[zoomer]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

About grain. We know bovine can be textured in a roller press to simulate goat grain (latter day G-1 contractors do it). Couldn't the same be done to imitate horse grain?

I own a few jackets with a very fine "horsey" grain, which crinkles only at the folds (such as inner elbows or collars). But their vintage (70s and later) and their market point (retail, non-collector) suggests they're bovine.

 

[Dr H]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Well Paul the DNA sequence is now in Gary's book if you want to get the analysis done!

 

[B-Man2]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Well........it's about time the cows got the credit they deserve after all these years!!!

 

[ausreenactor]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

It is like 'cowhide' is the new craze. Will manufacturers 'milk' it now and start
replacing the horse with the new info coming to light?

Couchy

 

[zoomer]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Well Paul the DNA sequence is now in Gary's book if you want to get the analysis done!

Even if I gave a $#!!...I probably wouldn't give THAT much of a $#!!

 

[B-Man2]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Well Paul the DNA sequence is now in Gary's book if you want to get the analysis done!

Even if I gave a $#!!...I probably wouldn't give THAT much of a $#!!

I think we're all in agreement with you on that one.............

 

[ButteMT61]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Well Paul the DNA sequence is now in Gary's book if you want to get the analysis done!

Even if I gave a $#!!...I probably wouldn't give THAT much of a $#!!

I liken it to the folks that did blind taste tests and found out that their Pepsi was Coke. They didn't know/care until someone told them. I didn't check my Aeros after the revelation because I don't care - I love the jackets I have. Although I'd wager the ones that are supposed to be HH are indeed just that. After all, I was one of a couple "Aero shills" and got preferred treatment :shock:

 

[Chandler]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

because I don't care - I love the jackets I have.

Hear hear!

 

[ButteMT61]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

because I don't care - I love the jackets I have.

Hear hear!

I even enjoy a warm beer whilst donning my Steer-a-Horse-a-Buffalo hide jacket

 

[Peter Graham]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

It is like 'cowhide' is the new craze. Will manufacturers 'milk' it now and start
replacing the horse with the new info coming to light?

I like what you did there.

 

[Chandler]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

I even enjoy a warm beer whilst donning my Steer-a-Horse-a-Buffalo hide jacket

As much as I enjoy a cold one?

 

[siddhartha]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

I think Gary is due a £1000 from Punchthemonkeys if you read this old post.

I'm talking about documented HH jackets here-most of the makers and reference books I've thumbed through (again, NOT an expert) claim that goat and HH were the only hides used. If steerhide was used (and there's NO reason why it couldn't be)I'm just saying, "Here's a 1000 pounds for you to prove it." Nothing more. IT's not my offer, and I thought it might be of interest to those here. I'm not making any stand other than to say that. If steerhide was used....then I say-prove it and get a 1000 pounds.

Well..he is the owner of this forum so I'm sure he'll see your post...but it was someone elses offer.

Never my offer. I've always thought that it was a bit off to think that cowhide was NEVER used for A-2s, being as it was wartime. We know that horsehide was used, so I usually choose that hide when ordering a repro.

 

[Andreart]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

this is my goodwear cowhide aero. one of johns test jackets

 

[Chandler]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

this is my goodwear cowhide aero. one of johns test jackets

Oh gawd, that doesn't look at all authentic.

(yeah, to all those unclear on internet communication, the smiley emoticon denotes that my comment is dripping with sarcasm)

 

[Andreart]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

that one is real old, one of the original test jackets, the've come a long way. The pic was taken not too long after i got it.

 

[zoomer]

Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

Yep, he was still keeping the shoulders and upper back supersmall and scaling everything up around them.