steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end repros

Discussion in 'General Flight Jacket Discussion' started by TOMG1401, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. TOMG1401

    TOMG1401 Member

    Messages:
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    With the possibility of huge amounts of jackets being made of Cow (someone mentioned possibly 93%) and possibly entire contracts being cow/steer, what will that do to say a STAR if found total contract was steer, my high end repro is horse, it is now not an authentic repro of that contract ? Like for instance if John made a RW 1401 out of Goat, not authentic. This should prove interesting on how we all accept and process this regarding claims of 1942 in a box. My guess is the ramifications for those to whom every minor aspect of a repro is do or die, will to maintain sanity forget all about this, business as usual
     
  2. TOMG1401

    TOMG1401 Member

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    299
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    When John first began Goodwear, he offered some really beautiful Cowhides, exceptional. They are no longer offered on the website, now I wonder if he will re-introduce cow/steer ?????
     
  3. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    1,355
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    It certainly would make it easier to acquire steerhide than horsehide for repro manufacturing purposes.

    But I find this new revelation a little depressing to think that horsehide, the "Holy Grail" of A2's, may be on equal or less than equal footing with steerhide when discussing WWII era A2 manufacturing and production.
    A little like finding out about Santa Claus :(

    I bet there's a bunch of original A2 owners that have got their jackets layed out next to a horsehide repro right now doing some intense comparative analysis work.

    What about it Andrew? ;)
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    I already have found a way to recognize steer vs horse in originals. I could be wrong of course, as leathers came from various tanneries and the maintenance or no maintenance original jackets have is totally different.

    Anyway, I think that people will still prefer horse as this was the spec.
    Some may prefer steer if it's cheaper. But even if cheaper I predict 20% steer / 80% horse.
     
  5. deand

    deand Active Member

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    Michigan
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re


    I, too, am truly cowed by this revelation. And yet...the learning continues.




    dean
     
  6. TankBuster

    TankBuster Active Member

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    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re


    I am fortunate enough to have one of these. I love the jacket!
     
  7. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    1,355
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re


    Any chance of you posting a few pictures of the jacket?
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    yep, those early cowhides John used to have
    looked much better than the horsehides I think.
    Some great colors, beautiful grain in them.
     
  9. Steve27752

    Steve27752 Well-Known Member

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    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re


    These are not 'new' revelations we had this discussion about 10 years ago. These so called revelations are often just re-discovered information.
     
  10. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    1,355
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re


    I'm not sure what discussion your talking about because I wasn't a member of this forum 10 years ago.........but then again.........neither were you :eek:
     
  11. Chandler

    Chandler Active Member

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    1,327
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    This forum wasn't around, but others were -- and there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about the use of cowhide on A-2s and whether or not anyone could really tell the difference. 'Pears it's not as easy as some alluded.
     
  12. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    1,355
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    OK a fair response.....so from what I'm reading here and in another thread, the information regarding the production and contract numbers that may have been made from leather is greater than what we once thought. In fact, it may have been at almost a 50% or more level for some contracts. Isn't that a good enough reason to re-examine this issue.? In light of the figures being discussed in this thread as well as the Eastman Book thread and in the interest of having accurate information regarding this hobby, I would think it would be reason to "wail and gnash " a few more teeth.
     
  13. Vcruiser

    Vcruiser Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    This forum(VLJ) was around for several years before 2008..even in this format..but had to be cleaned up and re installed(if you will) because of being corrupted. I think this is the 3rd version of the newer version. Before that this VLJ forum was on Yahoo in several renditions as well. Some of us were there from the beginning of the original VLJ. Possibly over 10 yrs ago.
    Van
     
  14. TankBuster

    TankBuster Active Member

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    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    Right on Van! I think the 1st one started around 2001 on yahoo? I joined up with VLJ around '03. It's a shame we lost all that great info from the early years!!!
     
  15. Jeff M

    Jeff M New Member

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    908
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    To answer the original question..

    Impact on viability of high end repros?
    Negligible to none.
    A good repro made with high quality products will still be "viable".
    There seems to be a market for horse hide jackets....."reproductions" or not.

    If anything, I would think the repro market would be helped by folks understanding that the original jackets were sometimes made out of cow hide. Gives manufacturers more to work with. Buyers more to choose from.
    Taking a the cynical track.....manufacturers could sell cow hide jackets at their current horse hide prices...and charge more for horse hide as an "upgrade".
    There could even be an "intermediary" category...."War cow". ;)
     
  16. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

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    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    It's that 'Mootang'TM again... ;)
     
  17. Jeff M

    Jeff M New Member

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    908
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    :lol:
     
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    Here's the yahoo site Jeff, you can still see quite a few posts, maybe someone can trawl up a cow conversation...
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageleatherjackets/
     
  19. Jeff M

    Jeff M New Member

    Messages:
    908
    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    Thanks for the link Andrew. Just spent a minute looking at some old posts.
    This one caught my eye;

    "I had a fascinating conversation yesterday with a
    woman who worked at the old Aero factory in Beacon, NY
    during the war. I asked her if they used only horsehide.
    She said they used whatever hides they could get
    their hands on, including cow, horse and sheepskins. As
    she put it, "there was a war on, so we used whatever
    we could get our hands on".<br><br>Grant"

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintagele ... essage/931
     
  20. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Re: steerhide revelations impact on viability of high end re

    There is plenty on the old forum about horse v steer.

    This post from Jan 2002 is interesting and relevant.

     

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