Rust knits B10's - argument over?

Discussion in 'Cloth' started by johnwayne, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    Crikey don't show that to Charles at HPA, he'll have a bloody aneurysm! That once again seems to show a bit of artistic licence taken by our mates at BR. Well called Rutger.

    And BR certainly can make L-2As with green/olive knits as they do exist, I just don't like how they state in their marketing flannel that they rolled off the production line that way without any supporting documentation or concrete evidence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  2. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    Well, thank for killing my desire for that red MA-1 guys :p
    I don't care about it as the boss said no. But I'm also not going to quibble about it as I don't know but what I see here and elsewhere...
    Still not proof either way for my eyes, but we each have our own tolerance for evidence...
     
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  3. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    I just blew up the colour photo of these red Northrop jackets and I think Rutger is right. The magnified image does not show any trace of a cigarette pocket which would be seen on an MA-1 and the fabric doesn't overly look like nylon. MA-1 s are not my thing so I hope someone far more knowledgeable than myself can jump in and give a more comprehensive view and opinion but what the blown up image and that black and white image that Rutger seem to show is not a MA-1 and not what BR have been saying is their facsimile of this jacket. Looks a bit porkie pies to me.
     
  4. Cocker

    Cocker Active Member

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    I have to agree with Rutger. The fabric of the jackets is indeed lacking that nylon shine you can see on other pictures, and no cigarette pocket.

    So DD is getting flack because he may not have used a different tread for the modded collar, not the right kind of nylon, not the mod label sewn over an original one, or the correct interlining on his Mod B-15, but BR is still praised for their high quality, top level down to the stitch count repros?! Oh well, whatever... *Arms thrown in the air in despair*
     
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  5. stanier

    stanier Active Member

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    I’ve found another pic of blue nylon L2-a and olive knits.

    2670A1E5-A8A8-4F5B-9491-7C741808D7B6.jpeg
     
  6. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    Cocker, if you mention this Northrop thing to Charles over at the hat place just be prepared for a major meltdown, honestly I think he'll flip his wig if you bring this up after his blurb about how BR fastidiously copied an actual jacket.
     
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  7. stanier

    stanier Active Member

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    No interest in red jackets but Rutger seems more than right on that one to me.

    Cheers
     
  8. dmar836

    dmar836 Well-Known Member

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    For the record I love the look of the olive knits on blue nylon. My only contention is the authority with which these other average guys claim it's an original variant because they can yell louder than you. I also don't think there is anything wrong with DDs version. I think the fact that he is allied with GW is why he is targeted over there. Remember ELC did "long" sizing in A-2s and neither they nor DD claimed their lengthened jackets were original cut. For them to criticize DD for making and admitting his pattern is longer while they support and argue about knit variants being original with zero evidence shows why they have to wear hats!
    As for the MA-1s. I think it's another issue of saturation and if corrected we would see the missiles, jackets, etc are orange and the jackets are just turned sage. That's the kind of stuff I think we need notice. If not, one could layer the two earlier P-47 photos and Photoshop the "olive-knitted" photographer with the corrected P-47 and confuse us all for life.
     
  9. Cocker

    Cocker Active Member

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    Actually, that's pretty tempting...

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  10. stanier

    stanier Active Member

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    Sorry Dave, if you’re referring to me in your first few lines. I’m not trying to yell or claim anything to do with originality, Buzz or DD.

    I’m just seeing more and more pics now I’m looking of blue L2-a’s with olive knits and trying to understand.

    Actually had an interesting day learning about the Korean War and seen lots of interesting jacket and other pics.

    Just contributing and discussing.

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  11. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    The lack of sheen I figgered was because they maybe used that other material as seen on the Apollo jackets that DD posted in his thread - blue and yellow/gold. Even the way the fabric drapes, etc. looks way less stiff than the BR copy.
    BTW, if they indeed have a Northrop red MA-1, show us. I'm now more than ever curious about this jacket.
     
  12. Monsoon

    Monsoon Active Member

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    Well, BR might have an actual red Northrop MA-1 that they copied. Who knows? I'd sure like to see it.

    And ButteMT61, spring for a Red MA-1. I did. ;)
     
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  13. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    YOU get it yet? I'm interested in the sizing...HPA rep said I could likely use the XXL, which in my BR research, means a 44. I'm a 48. I know nylon jackets can fe funky to size, so I'm curious...
     
  14. johnwayne

    johnwayne Well-Known Member

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    Having kicked this thread off I've found everything that's followed quite absorbing and interesting particularly the varying tangents you've all gone down with regard to whether or not elements of jacket productions were original or field repairs and ultimately I guess who really knows? Much of what's been suggested therefore purely assumption/suggestion but with regard to knits in particular if I wanted to become the next JC, DD or GE, I would definitely attempt to make a faithful repro in every respect. Why therefore should BR say, produce something that is faithful in every respect apart from the colour of the knits? How did they know that rust knits might appeal more than say a brown a la A2 type? I find it hard to believe they thought they might sell loads more jackets, surely as proved by this discussion such derivation has limited appeal!! Re jacket length and sizing for the modern man, don't ELC still make a 'slender' A2? Was that debated as much? As has been said by others though rust knits IMO do look cool and no, I'm not the next JC, DD or GE!!!
     
  15. Cocker

    Cocker Active Member

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    Well, BR do have faithful repros, that is a fact. Once there, why not go for something a bit more original ? As I said on TFL, the red knits are somewhat credible, and they do make the jacket stand out amongst the maze of "regular" B-10s. So that's a win-win situation.

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  16. Monsoon

    Monsoon Active Member

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    Well, I have a BR B-15 Mod that is a size 44 and fits great, and the Red MA-1 is an XXL and it fits great too.
     
  17. SuinBruin

    SuinBruin Active Member

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    There's nothing wrong with a B-10 with red knits, or an L-2A with green knits, or an L-2A that's longer in the torso than the original government spec, or a red MA-1. If someone likes it and wants to wear it, more power to him. The only issue is people making claims about historic fact and "authenticity" that they can't or won't back up. Between ego and profit motive folks wind up making positive assertions of fact that are, at best, dubious.

    Whether you own it or are selling it, don't say that something is a perfect reproduction of an original garment without some actual evidence supporting your claim.

    We have strong evidence that L-2As with green knits existed, but no proof that they were factory installed. We have very weak evidence of B-10s with red knits (HPA guy says he saw one once years ago), and no proof that they were factory installed. Thanks to this thread we know that there is as of yet no evidence for the existence of a red MA-1 (at least not one to the specs for an issued MA-1).

    No repro maker is perfect or above reasonable critique, including forum favorites GW and DD. But HPA and the other yahoos at the hat place have set up this ludicrous straw man standard of perfect authenticity for BR, which is utter nonsense. BR doesn't only make 100% perfectly accurate reproductions, and DD making nylon jackets that are slightly longer than originals and lacking the shoulder roundel is not a fraud on the jacket-buying public.
     
  18. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    So what size do you wear normally?
    That's my conundrum.
     
  19. Monsoon

    Monsoon Active Member

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    Usually around a 46 or 48. Depends on the jacket.

    I have a DD that's a 48, a GW that's a 46. My BR B-15 and B-10 are both 44. The BR Red MA-1 is an XXL. And my Eastman Perry B-3 is a 46.

    I think they all fit great. If I were to get another BR B-10, I'd probably get a 46, just because. And yes, my B-10 has red knits.
     
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  20. Monsoon

    Monsoon Active Member

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    I agree. It's not like he's touting them as perfect repros, he comes out and says they are longer.
     
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