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Rotenhahn is but a Goodwear customer...

A

Anonymous

Guest
I guess from many of my posts many may think that I'm a "shill" for Goodwear or have something to do with the company. I just want to make clear that this is not true- I am a friend of John's and a loyal customer- that's it. It's kind of funny because remembering back I'd say I've been an honest critic- in fact John's told me that sometimes he was a bit worried when he sent a jacket off to me :) . The reason I push the Goodwear product so intensely is that for those of you who've always wanted a WW2 jacket you can wear- a Goodwear's it- the real deal- a dream come true for me. The problem's I've heard and experienced with Goodwears usually involve test jackets, leather problems and fit problems. That's why it's important to communicate with John and make sure you both understand what you want. I push the Goodwears so passionately over the Other Guys because with them (the Other Guys that is) you're not getting a real copy no matter what they say- high quality leather jackets yes- but only a Goodwear's a real copy. No one on earth is more committed to getting "it" right than John- you know- that undefinable "it" that these jackets have- a combination of details, leather and pattern. I know I've been rude lately and I really hope that this doesn't affect anyone on the forum's opinion of Goodwear- we really are independent entities :!: ! Take this post for what it is- I'm sure I'm attaching far more importance to my rudeness than is true- probably for most of you I'm like the neighbor's little dog barking at night- just an annoyance ;) .
 

bseal

Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly you have owned Lost Worlds, Aeros, and Real McCoys A-2s. Therefore your opinion is based upon firsthand knowledge and worthy of consideration.
 

better duck

Well-Known Member
Hey Rotenhahn,
As far as this apologetic post is concerned: I appreciate the effort and the intent behind it, but as far as I'm concerned it's not necessary. I think you are one of the most critical members of our forum and have an eye for and an interest in even the tiniest details. This makes you knowledgeable in a big way on the subject of A2s. I'm sure many of us could profit from that, as John probably did when he sent test jackets to you and anxiously awaited your verdict. The only thing you should realise, it often is, as we here in Holland say "it's the tone that makes the music", or: it's not what you say, it's the way that you say it, that either puts people off - or makes them pay heed to what you have to say.
Your attention to detail is amazing and a quality in its own right. For example, the discussion about a supporting piece of leather in the collar for the collarsnaps. I have never seen even the outline or shadow of such a supporting piece of leather, not even in the photos you provided as proof. I take it on your authority that they were there in many jackets. But as far as I am concerned what I have and and what I see in that respect on my ELC A2s is fine with me: it is close enough to a WW2 jacket for my needs and interest.
We first of all should realise we are serious about not a world shattering subject, but a hobby of ours that interests almost nobody but our little band of brothers, connected in a flimsy and fleeting way across the globe by this forum on the internet. Ask anybody else around you and they will listen politely and maybe even vaguely interested for a couple of minutes. It is only here, that verbal battles rage about the intricacies of wartime jackets. I just viewed the ELC DVD about flight jackets and listened to the vets that have something to say about the importance of their leather jacket back then. I must say it sounded kind of strained and rehearsed. One of them even says something like "amazing the attention that is given nowadays to something that we hardly noticed in those days" or words to that effect! (BTW: I do share your opinion, that that is hardly relevant in our discussion about the pros & cons of repros!) So let's appreciate our mutual interest in this tiniest of subjects but also respect the relative positions we have here. Then all will be fine.

In the meantime I will remain waiting for my GW Dubow in goat with purple knits, NOS Crown zip.... :cool:

Cheers mate!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Understood Peter- BTW- here's a picture in which you can clearly make out the little supporting tabs under the collar snaps. The jacket's a Roughwear 1401p:
a27e_3JPG.jpg

See the square shape around the snap? That's the little piece of leather.
 

better duck

Well-Known Member
rotenhahn said:
BTW- here's a picture in which you can clearly make out the little supporting tabs under the collar snaps. The jacket's a Roughwear 1401p:
a27e_3JPG.jpg

See the square shape around the snap? That's the little piece of leather.

OK, thanks! I'll save this photo on my PC for future reference! Yes, in this picture it really stands out! Not very beautiful, really! But if it is so obvious in this vintage jacket, and not so in others, wouldn't this indicate that a supporting piece like this was used on and off - and wouldn't a repro without it be just as authentic without one?
 

Tim P

Well-Known Member
Brand loyalty is a very good attribute to have. opinions are also good to have. knowing what you like is no crime and differing requirements, when catered for well help us to embrace our individuality.
In the case of lets say the former East germany where it was a trabant or walk, the trabant, when available, was the clear choice. In the West the choice of motor cars was extremely varied and needs tailored.
Having come back from the Eastman stand at Duxford, one company alone offers a range so wide as to beggar belief. add the nuances of all the other big leaguers and there is truly something for everyone.
 

better duck

Well-Known Member
Tim P said:
Having come back from the Eastman stand at Duxford, one company alone offers a range so wide as to beggar belief./quote]

Indeed: it is an amazing collection of WW2 jackets and related apparel that Gary is offering. And remember: he started just the way John has started now: a one man show, through trial and error making first one jacket, then one type of jacket, then one version of several jackets, then into the deep and offering various versions of a ever growing number of types of jacket.... And let not each offering be 100% accurate: where can one find, together, from one manufacturer: A2s in sorts and sizes, B3, B6, D1, G1, M422A, etc, etc.
Yes folks, I am an Eastman fan, having bought my first A2 from Gary close to 20 years ago, and having in my possesion the collection of jackets you can find in my bio (link: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=93&p=265#p265 ). A fan, but not slavish, and not above any critique ELC may warrant; and not to the exclusion of the others: as stated, I have a GW Dubow on order!
 

havocpaul

Active Member
As perhaps one of the recipricants of your recent posts on the ELC discussion I feel no need for an apology and nor did I ever for one moment think you had any ties to the GW business. I will admit it got a little annoying but so long as it never gets personal it does no harm. I personally hope that John's business reaches the heights and diversity that Gary's has, it doesn't happen over night and it relies on sensible, fair and constructive feedback.
 

John Lever

Moderator
From a neutral stand point as I have no interest whatsoever in A2's, could it be that the GW fit is designed for 30's man and not big Americans with beer bellies ? So the other makers have altered the patterns to suit today's customers rather than yesterdays recruits ?
 

Curahee

New Member
rotenhahn said:
I guess from many of my posts many may think that I'm a "shill" for Goodwear or have something to do with the company. I just want to make clear that this is not true- I am a friend of John's and a loyal customer- that's it. It's kind of funny because remembering back I'd say I've been an honest critic- in fact John's told me that sometimes he was a bit worried when he sent a jacket off to me :) . The reason I push the Goodwear product so intensely is that for those of you who've always wanted a WW2 jacket you can wear- a Goodwear's it- the real deal- a dream come true for me. The problem's I've heard and experienced with Goodwears usually involve test jackets, leather problems and fit problems. That's why it's important to communicate with John and make sure you both understand what you want. I push the Goodwears so passionately over the Other Guys because with them (the Other Guys that is) you're not getting a real copy no matter what they say- high quality leather jackets yes- but only a Goodwear's a real copy. No one on earth is more committed to getting "it" right than John- you know- that undefinable "it" that these jackets have- a combination of details, leather and pattern. I know I've been rude lately and I really hope that this doesn't affect anyone on the forum's opinion of Goodwear- we really are independent entities :!: ! Take this post for what it is- I'm sure I'm attaching far more importance to my rudeness than is true- probably for most of you I'm like the neighbor's little dog barking at night- just an annoyance ;) .


Well, Better Duck and the others took the words right out of my mouth. And my next A-2 will
most likely be an GW Aero 21996 ;)
 

jacketimp

New Member
rotenhahn said:
I guess from many of my posts many may think that I'm a "shill" for Goodwear or have something to do with the company. I just want to make clear that this is not true- I am a friend of John's and a loyal customer- that's it. It's kind of funny because remembering back I'd say I've been an honest critic- in fact John's told me that sometimes he was a bit worried when he sent a jacket off to me :) . The reason I push the Goodwear product so intensely is that for those of you who've always wanted a WW2 jacket you can wear- a Goodwear's it- the real deal- a dream come true for me. The problem's I've heard and experienced with Goodwears usually involve test jackets, leather problems and fit problems. That's why it's important to communicate with John and make sure you both understand what you want. I push the Goodwears so passionately over the Other Guys because with them (the Other Guys that is) you're not getting a real copy no matter what they say- high quality leather jackets yes- but only a Goodwear's a real copy. No one on earth is more committed to getting "it" right than John- you know- that undefinable "it" that these jackets have- a combination of details, leather and pattern. I know I've been rude lately and I really hope that this doesn't affect anyone on the forum's opinion of Goodwear- we really are independent entities :!: ! Take this post for what it is- I'm sure I'm attaching far more importance to my rudeness than is true- probably for most of you I'm like the neighbor's little dog barking at night- just an annoyance ;) .


every sinner has a future just as every saint has had a past..... :)

loyal customer?..........let's say GW ambassador GW as in Good Wear NOT goodwill ambassador.

little neighbour's barking dog at nite........NO you don't do little barking dog.......i was thinking BIG BADDA wolfie.....

nice post tho...........


oh dear hope i don't unleash the whirlwind!

Ok 'fess up.........who put a gun to your head to do this posting???

i knew there was a nice streak in you........
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
better duck said:
rotenhahn said:
BTW- here's a picture in which you can clearly make out the little supporting tabs under the collar snaps. The jacket's a Roughwear 1401p:
a27e_3JPG.jpg

See the square shape around the snap? That's the little piece of leather.

OK, thanks! I'll save this photo on my PC for future reference! Yes, in this picture it really stands out! Not very beautiful, really! But if it is so obvious in this vintage jacket, and not so in others, wouldn't this indicate that a supporting piece like this was used on and off - and wouldn't a repro without it be just as authentic without one?
As far as I know all Roughwears were like this so a repro of a RW without the little tabs is incorrect. Most Aeros ditto although not necessarily the 21996. You're right- it varied from contract to contract although it was specific to many.
 

rich

New Member
probably for most of you I'm like the neighbor's little dog barking at night- just an annoyance ;) .[/quote]


Seinfeld episode 111, "The Engagement".
 

jacketimp

New Member
rich said:
probably for most of you I'm like the neighbor's little dog barking at night- just an annoyance ;) .





choose your decibels:

a) whimper whimper

b) whine whine ( NOT win win)

c) bow wow

d) woof woof

e) growl growl

f) hayooooooooooooooo
 
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