Question about an "approximate" repro, and whether A2s ever had sheepskin collars

[BigBrother]

Hey all. So as I mentioned in my first post yesterday, I tried this jacket on and it was a really good fit:

Naked Buffalo Bomber Jacket 594

www.schottnyc.com

As I'm relatively new to all this, I had a few questions:

1. I'm looking at a jacket primarily for some reenactment events, and though I'm hardly at the zipper- and clasp-level of accuracy, I did want something that more or less read right. Does this read right as either a G1 or an A2 (if the sheepskin is removed)? And see... I'm learning already! I didn't know a few days ago about the bi-swing aspect and G1s vs A2s, so now I'm thinking this jacket is much more based on a G1 than an A2 (besides just the sheepskin collar, though more on that below).

2. Did any A2s ever have sheepskin collars?

3. If a G1's sheepskin collar is removed, is it very close to an A2? (To my untrained eye they look extremely similar.) I know now about the bi-swing aspect and the fit. Curious about other major aspects.

Basically I'm wondering if this one looks fairly authentic, if it could pull double duty as either service's leather flight jacket, and if A2s ever had sheepskin. Thanks!

 

[Chandler]

To me, it reads as the "flight jackets" Schott has been selling for decades. Not terribly authentic, but certainly well made.

There is argument to be made that field alterations by individuals may have added fleece to an A-2 collar, but they weren't issued that way.

And this example is far from the sleek design of the G-1.

 

[MikeyB-17]

That bears only a passing resemblance to a military jacket-it’s basically a commercial ’flight jacket’, using different elements of USN and AAF jackets, which have been produced by various companies since the war. Neither A-2’s or G-1’s had handwarmer pockets, or snaps on the windflap. If your re-enactor group is at all particular about historical accuracy, it ain’t going to cut it. To be honest, although they do produce some decent civilian jackets, Schott don’t actually make any actual reproductions of military jackets, AFAIK.
In answer to your questions:-
A-2’s were never issued with fur collars. Some had unofficial ‘field modifications’ added, usually with a collar taken off another jacket.
If you take the fur collar off a G-1, you get an AN-J-3. The G-1 was a much more complicated design than the A-2-the Navy, with less personnel, and smaller contracts, could afford a fancier design than the simpler A-2, hence the bi-swing back, fur collar, inside pocket etc. of the M-422a. Look at them both from behind, and you’ll see that the G-1/M-422a is not just an A-2 with a fur collar. There was an attempt to produce a jacket for use by both the AAF and USN, hence ‘AN’ for Army/Navy, which led to the AN-J-3a, which was essentially the Navy jacket design, and the AN-J-3, which was the same without a fur collar. Very few were produced, the cloth jackets came in soon afterwards. To this day there is much debate as to whether the AN-J-3 was ever a military issued jacket at all-they never have a label in them when they turn up.
If you want something for re-enactment, you want something more accurate than a Schott. ELC, Goodwear, Aero etc. are your boys, or Five Star if you’re on a budget. If you haven’t already, a look at Eastman’s website will show you the differences between AF and Navy jackets, and how they looked.

 

[mulceber]

Agreed with what's been said above. For reenacting, go for something better. If you're already looking at spending almost $900 from Schott, you've got a bunch of great options that actually are accurate:

Aero (either a custom made A-2, or a trainee jacket, which will be in the neighborhood of £450)
J.A. Dubow Mfg. Co. (Platon's Dubow) - €450
Five Star Leather about $325, depending on customization.

Five Star will be the fastest (or Aero, if you buy a trainee jacket), Dubow will be tops in terms of accuracy to the originals. Aero and Dubow are both a cut above Five Star when it comes to the materials used.

 

[Chandler]

Here's a 40 year-old Schott for comparison to what they're still making. A friend had the identical jacket at the time... with a fur collar (and a fleece lining, IIRC), but dark in color.

How it all began...

This is a great thread JinmO! Brings back some super memories. Well Done!! Cheers

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

 

[BigBrother]

Thanks for the responses, all! Very useful and informative. And also yeah, at $900 I really figured I should get something more authentic. More accurately, I don’t want to spend even close to $900 right now, but *if* I were to, I would want it to be on something much more authentic, like a GW. It’s just that with this jacket, for the first time I put something on that *felt* right. The Cockpit USAs (haven’t heard them mentioned on here... wondering the reason (?) ), other Schotts, vintage store ones, and Wilson’s Leather (laugh laugh but they do have some decent approximations) have never quite fit/felt right, and this one did. So in the back of my mind I earmarked it as “the one” that failing all else, would fit amazingly. (See my previous post wondering about a way to try before I buy so I can find that fit.)

Anyway, good stuff. I had been most interested in the whole fur collar thing with A2s.

Thanks!

 

[Chandler]

(...decent approximations)

I think this is an oxymoron when speaking in terms of authenticity!

 

[BigBrother]

Fair point. Basically these are intended to complete outfits for events at which I’m dancing, and so I’m going for overall correct-looking silhouette/general shape (you know, not showing up in a motorcycle jacket ). HOWEVER, slippery slope that this is, I’ve quickly found myself “wait, but if I’m this close, why not CLOSER???”ing so yeah, may as well go correct at this point .

I’ve dreaded thinking what happens when I start having to put pins and ribbons and patches and whatnot on all the uniforms. Oh well-diving, know you no bounds?

 

[Garylafortuna]

If this jacket fits you well, why not take the standard measurements of it, contact Shawn at Five Star Leather, discuss the situation, and have him stitch you up a nice A-2 or a G-1, which will be far more representative of an original AAF or Navy flight jacket than this Schott. The wait will be brief, and it won't decimate your pocket book.

 

[BigBrother]

If this jacket fits you well, why not take the standard measurements of it, contact Shawn at Five Star Leather, discuss the situation, and have him stitch you up a nice A-2 or a G-1, which will be far more representative of an original AAF or Navy flight jacket than this Schott. The wait will be brief, and it won't decimate your pocket book.

Damn. That is NOT a bad idea. That seriously just became, probably, my primary strategy! And heck, at Shawn’s prices I could probably get one of each!! Thanks so much!