Photos of Security Aviation Togs A-2s

[Weasel_Loader]

My current interest in inter-war years flight jackets has me looking for more info on early A-2s. Is there any info out there on Security Aviation Togs A-2s? Detailed photos and such? Anybody ever do any repros of this jacket? My knowledge of leather is lacking but would like to learn more.

Here is one of the early photos I posted on another thread of early Muroc Bombing & Gunnery Range pilots. It's currently one of my favorites. I do see one pilot wearing an A-1, but anyone know what the other jackets are?

 

[tamoko]

Why Security Aviation Tog ? Why not first Werber ?
Bevan had "FULL GEAR" book with Security Aviation Tog images
You can ask Eastman to add buttons on pocket flap on Werber,
and make left pocket a little bit bigger.

 

[tamoko]

Not Security Aviation Togs but interesting early one
On photo NAVY test pilot in USN/A-1, hi pockets and collar like on L-2's

 

[Grant]

Here's the page from Full Gear showing a Security Aviation Togs dating from 1932. Sorry about the quality of the scan - the scanner I had access to was pretty shitty. Grant

 

[tamoko]

no label on Jacket, this is not Werber ?

 

[Swing]

Here's the page from Full Gear showing a Security Aviation Togs dating from 1932. Sorry about the quality of the scan - the scanner I had access to was pretty shitty. Grant

Cool jacket, and neat to see that the wrist knit is Aero red. Wonder when and how that wound up on there?

I see the label is missing. Are they sure it's a Security Aviation Togs jacket? IIRC, there were two early A-2 contracts with button pockets. I think the other was produced by Werber.

I'm glad ELC came out with their '33 Werber, but I wish they had gone all the way back to the beginning and produced a button pocket A-2.

~Swing

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Thanks for the photos fellas. Interesting Full Gear scan. I too imagine the knits were replaced at one time. :roll:

 

[zoomer]

Great stuff! Thanks Grant and tamoko.

I recall from somewhere that Air Associates, a general aviation supply house, marketed an A-2 in the early 30s. But I know zero other than that. It could have been made for them by someone else, so could easily have been that other button pocket version.

Seems unlikely for the gov't to contract with AA if they didn't make the jackets themselves. But it could easily have been a non-contract, private purchase item.

Getting back to the Security:

-Why do we think the left pocket is deeper? Perhaps to allow for a fresh pencil, slide rule, etc. to be stored without pushing the flap up?
-Any intel on the zipper used? Was the riveted Hookless the only game in town at the time?

 

[Swing]

-Any intel on the zipper used? Was the riveted Hookless the only game in town at the time?

As far as I know, yes.

~Swing

 

[Grant]

It is a very cool jacket.
BTW, it's not a Werber, since the first Werber contract (33-1729) used snaps on the pockets. According to Aota Mituhiro (author of Full Gear) SAT was the only A-2 made with button pockets. As far as zip goes my guess is it's a Talon - since Werber was using the stubby riveted Talon in '33. Also, I've never seen documented proof that that any manufacturer used Hookless zips on a leather flight jacket - not to say a photo isn't out there somewhere! I have seen Hookless zips used in late 20's flight suits however!

Does anyone know if SAT became Werber Leather Coat Co. in 1933? If you look at the SAT 32-485 contract next to the Werber 33-1729 they almost look identical except for the buttoned pocket.

I'm digging my ELC Werber so much it'd be cool if Gary came out with a SAT's repro - thee first contract A-2! I know that probably won't happen as the two are so close but it'd still be neat.

I'll ask Aota what zip the SAT had as I'm sure he'll remember.

Grant

 

[Falcon_52]

I do see one pilot wearing an A-1, but anyone know what the other jackets are?

To me, it looks like there are at least 3 of the Werber 33-1729P jackets in that picture (the two men standing on the left and the man standing on the right). Their jackets appear to have the rivetted Hookless/Talon zipper and I don't believe any other manufacturer used that zipper for an A-2.

The others are difficult to tell, but my knowledge is VERY limited. Great photo, by the way. I love the pre-WWII flight gear as well. Thanks for posting it!

Noel

 

[dadgad]

Here's the page from Full Gear showing a Security Aviation Togs dating from 1932. Sorry about the quality of the scan - the scanner I had access to was pretty shitty. Grant

Interesting enough, the neck hooks are fitted just like on the pre-war Aeros.

 

[Grant]

Hi Noel,
Actually that's not true. The first Aero contract (38-1711-P) used the rivited Talon zip.

Grant

 

[tamoko]

Aota Mituhiro is like Kesaharu Imai they make many speculation too, this is not the end of the way.
It is strange for me why if AAF jacket had already label on A-1 and A-2 add civilian SAT label ?

Just some photos i found.

strange combination civilian and military label.

interesting A-1 with AN-..

and other early one

 

[Grant]

Hi Tamoko,
Sure, we all speculate to some extent in this crazy hobby. Show me a photo of the first Werber contract, or any other contract for that matter, with button pockets and I'll be convinced!

Grant

 

[tamoko]

Hi Tamoko,
Sure, we all speculate to some extent in this crazy hobby. Show me a photo of the first Werber contract, or any other contract for that matter, with button pockets and I'll be convinced!

Grant

Absolutely agreed .

And this is no 100% guaranty that both is a rial labels and not fake (A-1 and SAT)

H.L.B and Werber original.

 

[tamoko]

This is not same Pilot ?

 

[Chris217]

It would be interesting to know how many SAT's were made.

 

[greyhound52]

This is not same Pilot ?

I think zoomer Id'ed as LT Charles Howard and I believe it is the same person in each photo.

 

[zoomer]

Paddy of FL/VLJ renown sent me a scan of some Air Corps communique, dated 1935, stating that approval had been given for the purchase of 500 A-2s. So the numbers would have had to be vanishingly small. Especially for a 1932 contract - money was so tight that year they could not even have interservice war games.

Security Sportswear was the real name of the maker, a Chicago firm that also made a line called Golf Togs. Aviation Togs was just another line of Security Sportswear. I doubt a Chicago firm had an in with Werber in Beacon, NY, but the leather business then was very tight-knit, so nothing is out of the question.

Yes, Lieut. Charles Howard was CO of the 11th Bomb Squadron, and the Curtiss B-2 in the group pic, which I believe Weasel dated to 1933, was one of theirs. Howard was on Hap Arnold's B-10 flight to Alaska in 1934. In 1936, by then a major, he was killed in a crash. Howard AFB, Panama, was named for him.

The bareheaded officer with the well-broken-in Security is Maj. Ken Walker, XO of the 7th Bomb Group in 1937. More about him can be found here.