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My 37J1 Conversion

zoomer

Well-Known Member
I am now in the midst of upcycling a Bedford cord jacket into what I hope will be a decent Style 37J1A, with the no zip/ double button collar.

Here's what I started with. Orvis made this bastardized NA-1 deck jacket several seasons ago. It cost me $54 on sale. The D-shaped pockets are nice but not very practical for holding things. The real flaw is the rivet toggles. As the jacket is unlined, they're too heavy, clumsy, and showy.

The Bedford cord fabric and basic construction made me think that it would be ideal to make a 37J1.
5E9T6SBbkhk_lg.jpg
 

zoomer

Well-Known Member
Undoing some pocket and wind flap seams suggested little to no stitch marks would remain. This was promising.
Finding khaki Bedford cord jeans on eBay ($17) clinched the decision to go ahead.
The legs will make patch/flap pockets. (The business part of the pants will become jorts.)
37179935_2065183153492760_370085804204097536_o.jpg


Jacket left, pants right. The pants fabric has 2% spandex, so my pockets will be able to stretch a little. Sometimes that's useful!
37037684_2065182083492867_1065503350876798976_o.jpg
 
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zoomer

Well-Known Member
Next, I detached the pockets and flap (along with a small inside pen pocket) and wetted the stitch lines with a hot washcloth.
If lines remain, the pointy edge of a spoon bowl can help. You rub it up, down, back and forth over the holes.
Repeat the wetting, then the spooning, till the lines don't bother you anymore.

Then it was time to dye. I only had access to a steel sink and no olive dye that would work in it, so I mixed 4 parts apple green Liquid Rit with about 1 part cocoa brown.
The result is not quite a standard 37J1 repro color, but it's in between two that are - OD green and greenish-tan. It could be lightly bleached to be a bit duller.

Minus pockets and flap, plus dye. The pant legs, pockets and flap all went in too. Some turned out spotty but parts will be usable. The jacket itself did not spot.
IMG_2108.JPG
 
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zoomer

Well-Known Member
Now to consider closure. I have a Hookless deco box repro zipper that would be ideal, but the big issue is getting rid of the fireman's clasps while still keeping the front balanced.
37085217_2066597410018001_151757618522619904_o.jpg


The jacket was oversized but did shrink a bit, and 1 1/4" or more on each side of the zip line will have to be cut away because of those toggles.
So there may be a need for outside zipper facings, to add back some size thru the midsection. Those would create an obvious seam on either side of the zipper - something 37Js did not have!

The zips were stitched right to the exterior, sometimes with a double stitch, creating what looks like a seam from a little ways back (but isn't).
Here is how it looks on Real McCoy's Zielinski 37J1B.
20140207_508198.jpg


So...how do you disguise a seam to look only sort of like a seam?
My idea right now is to stitch in an inset facing, then run a line of stitches immediately next to it, to strengthen the zip attachment and give an illusion of greater thickness next to the side of the of the seam that's doubled over
Photoshop conception: - Inset facing at left. It could also be done with an outside-attached facing, shown at right.
inset-vs-outset-zip-dbl-sewn.png
 
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Thomas Koehle

Well-Known Member
Wow!
This is getting an interesting project!
Looking forward to see whatever solution you find to get rid of the clasps ...
 

dmar836

Well-Known Member
Cool stuff. Can't wait!
Dave
P.S. Do you have a need for the spring latches? I'd be interested in them if not.
 

Geeboo

Well-Known Member
"getting rid of the fireman's clasps while still keeping the front balanced" IMO that would be very difficult if not impossible - removing the clasps will reduce the width of the garment by as much as 2" on 1 side, it will make the front side unbalanced, if you cut the right side ,& thus the back inevitably, as well, this will make the jacket way too small - let's see your progress !:)
37J1 is a 30's jacket that all used grommet zipper, Hookless slider is ok, Talon is preferable but need to be grommetted. The M42 zip box is wrong.
 

zoomer

Well-Known Member
My plan is to have grommets punched thru the outside at the zipper footings, and hope no one looks for the metal findings that should be underneath! ;)

Re the fit, I'm figuring on losing 2 1/2" (=1 1/4" per side) and gaining back about 1"... 3/8" + 3/8" in zipper facings, and 1/4" or so in a gap between the facings where the zip is. You do see zip teeth when closed on certain originals, along with wide stitching on either side (I'll try to find a pic).

The back will remain untouched!

What I am after here is "just enough" authenticity. We have our stitch-faithful contract replicas and our mass market offerings showing the heavy hands of garmentos. What we don't have is any other approaches. What might be faithful short of stitch-faithful?
 
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Geeboo

Well-Known Member
There is a tiny detail in 37J1 most of the users will not be aware of unless they get their hands on to make 1 himself , I dare to depict it from discovering yourself here:
Rivet and Grommet stem height usually in proportion to its head size, for a small head to be used on the zipper pull, the stem of all modern rivet and grommet is way too short-of this diameter the stem is usu. 3-4mm long. Imagine, even McCoy is unable to use an OPEN ended grommet that is long enough to pierce through the head of the pull - that is 6-7mm thick . Instead, McCoy use a more readily available shorter, closed ended rivet [not grommet] in the middle of the pull - which is thinner.
" Nothing beats the original" :>
Mccoy.jpg
 
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Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
My plan is to have grommets punched thru the outside at the zipper footings, and hope no one looks for the metal findings that should be underneath ;)
That should work fine. Just make sure and get the grommets straight. You would have to punch through the zipper tape even if you had the brackets in there. So the same method should work.

That zipper box is from the mid 30's below on the right. It's just missing the "Talon" for copywrite reasons. So it's period correct at least! That zip is a good 1930's reproduction. They did have hookless zippers without the grommets as well in the 1930's.
Talonzipdates-2.jpg


Regards,
Jay
 

Geeboo

Well-Known Member
1 reminder that may cause hard-feeling but is true from my heart:
Copy cat or replica or homage is all about details. & is all about money. Each little details add up a bit, the final is not at all "cheap" most of the time.
If you omit 1 detail here , & there, you may end up with a replica that is less plausible than Bronson - which is very well-made, IMO.
BUT don't get it wrong, keep going, I encourage you, not discouraging by false-picking, to try a different area in this interest - which is Obviously not for everyone - I am glad you have the time & interest & energy to trial this.

P.S
This is absolutely NOT fine
1) box on the right is a M39 box - sunburst box- that is 30's. M42 stripe box is 40's
2) Even it is M39 - a 30's zipper, M39 is NEVER found to be used in 37J1, One should not use any kind of 30's zipper on any 30's jacket. Each vintage military jacket has a SPECIFIC period correct zipper. For 37J1, it is Nickel Grommet Talon zip, Nothing else.
3) I am very, very, very surprised that comment come out from Skyhawk
 
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Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
You can get 9mm eyelets on ebay :)

They are a jewelry supply and called eyelets but some are the same size as the zipper ones. I'm still on the hunt for the washers though.

Regards,
Jay
 

Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
1 reminder that may cause hard-feeling but is true from my heart:
Copy cat or replica or homage is all about details. & is all about money. Each little details add up a bit, the final is not at all "cheap" most of the time.
If you omit 1 detail here , & there, you may end up with a replica that is less plausible than Bronson - which is very well-made, IMO.
BUT don't get it wrong, keep going, I encourage you, not discouraging by false-picking, to try a different area in this interest - which is Obviously not for everyone - I am glad you have the time & interest & energy to trial this.

P.S
This is absolutely NOT fine
1) box on the right is a M39 box - sunburst box- that is 30's. M42 stripe box is 40's
2) Even it is M39 - a 30's zipper, M39 is NEVER found to be used in 37J1, One should not use any kind of 30's zipper on any 30's jacket. Each vintage military jacket has a SPECIFIC period correct zipper. For 37J1, it is Nickel Grommet Talon zip, Nothing else.
3) I am very, very, very surprised that comment come out from Skyhawk

Hey not sure I get it. That box first appeared in the mid 1930's. No it is not Mil spec. I know that. Just trying to help out the OP. It is at least period correct. I never said it was on the original jackets. I don't think he is trying for a 100% correct reproduction. This is a jacket conversion. Cool idea!

Talonzipdates-3.jpg

Anyway, good luck and it will be cool to see how it turns out!

Regards,
Jay
 
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zoomer

Well-Known Member
Possible bad news. Took the jacket out in sunshine and it practically glowed - WAY too bright.

For reasons I will not trouble you with relating to my living situation, I could not take the care I wanted to take in fixing this. I had to use a small bathroom sink to try and pre-soak the jacket in a bleach solution. I couldn't agitate the fabric enough and ended up with streaks, which may or may not come out...at least not without more hot dye baths, more drying, and more shrinking, surely out of fit...:( :mad:
 
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Geeboo

Well-Known Member
#12
If you are talking about this, I Confirm it is not suitable - the head is too small, because I have bought it !! -total waste ;)

...............even McCoy cannot do it. ...............I don't talk the talk out of thin air.
9mm.jpg

9mm_1.jpg
 
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dmar836

Well-Known Member
I guess I assumed you were going to use the pant material to make a placard to cover the toggle rivet holes - a sort of field mod look. Since you aren’t going for total authenticity I think that would look industrial and rigger-like.
There are color removers that don’t contain bleach. I can’t remember off hand what chemical is in the bleach or in the commonly available Rit dye but apparently it’s difficult to dye after bleaching. You could take a “functional” go-for-broke approach and maybe scrub it up later or even vat dye it once it’s done - like a period refurb job or as if you just needed to mod a jacket for an upcoming hunting trip. I think either way it will look cool.
Great idea BTW,
Dave
 

zoomer

Well-Known Member
Happily, I think I dodged a bullet here. The radioactive babysh!t green bleached to a rather pleasing Carhartt ocher.
And shrinkage seems to have held to a minimum, so I can still do just the slender zipper facings in front.
WHEW :rolleyes:

Here I've folded up the pant leg into a pocket, and added some wool tanker knit ($20) from At The Front.

The question remains...this shade was presumably a fade from OD.
Most repros in a "faded" shade have brown knits, not olive.
So whatever was fading the cord...turned the knits brown??? It seems unlikely.
Is that just a maker's decision, to differentiate the product from tanker jackets?
Or another possibility...that surviving 37Js "passed down for training" after 1940 were refitted with the brown knits supplied for M-422s ?
37295112_2071481716196237_8363725338898857984_o.jpg
 
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zoomer

Well-Known Member
As the jacket is unlined, I got hold of some liner fabric (2 yards @ $5.99/yd).
It's called "parchment," or maybe that's the color name - kind of buff, not as white as it photographs.
100% cotton, feels like A-2 liner, ie, lightweight, sturdy but not scratchy. (I'll be washing it before it's tailored anyway.)

Knit here is a dark olive acrylic. I like the color but I prefer wool.
37282233_2071791596165249_5041051815949369344_o.jpg
 
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zoomer

Well-Known Member
I guess I assumed you were going to use the pant material to make a placard to cover the toggle rivet holes - a sort of field mod look. Since you aren’t going for total authenticity I think that would look industrial and rigger-like.
There are color removers that don’t contain bleach. I can’t remember off hand what chemical is in the bleach or in the commonly available Rit dye but apparently it’s difficult to dye after bleaching. You could take a “functional” go-for-broke approach and maybe scrub it up later or even vat dye it once it’s done - like a period refurb job or as if you just needed to mod a jacket for an upcoming hunting trip. I think either way it will look cool.
Great idea BTW,
Dave
Had the bleaching failed...or should any other major fail occur...I like this idea a lot! Reattach the D-pockets, cover the holes with the placket - hell, maybe buttonholes! - and go hell-for-Bedford-cord. :D
 
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