Most highly regarded leather grain?

[airfrogusmc]

More right than that stuff Paul had on his 1401 or the stuff I had on my 27752. And there was thin nasty hides on originals and you keep following me around sweetheart. I do like you in those fishnets and your BEAUTIFUL hide of default but if ya keep stalk'n me I'm gonna have to get a restraining order :roll: :roll: I know your still pissed at the Aero thing but man ya gotta let it go.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Oh and last time I looked I didn't see you as a moderator so until then I will post and say what the fuck I want.

 

[Swing]

More right than that stuff Paul had on his 1401 or the stuff I had on my 27752. And there was thin nasty hides on originals and you keep following me around sweetheart. I do like you in those fishnets and your BEAUTIFUL hide of default but if ya keep stalk'n me I'm gonna have to get a restraining order :roll: :roll: I know your still pissed at the Aero thing but man ya gotta let it go.

I've pointed out the truth, and all you can do is resort to baiting.

~Swing

 

[airfrogusmc]

More right than that stuff Paul had on his 1401 or the stuff I had on my 27752. And there was thin nasty hides on originals and you keep following me around sweetheart. I do like you in those fishnets and your BEAUTIFUL hide of default but if ya keep stalk'n me I'm gonna have to get a restraining order :roll: :roll: I know your still pissed at the Aero thing but man ya gotta let it go.

I've pointed out the truth, and all you can do is resort to baiting.

~Swing

What truth, where? The truth is you follow me around and and start shit all because your a little petty bitch.

 

[Chandler]

Funny how things change. 9 years ago at the Deja forums, people bitched about how light ELC's leather was. Aero's heavy cardboard jackets became all the rage four or five years ago.

9 years? Has this all really come that full circle? Man, what craziness. I've seen some of the Lost Worlds jackets, if anyone wants cardboard (or plywood!). Then I can send anyone my first ever (supposedly) authentic A-2 (some outfit from MY or NJ) that's just about paper thin. I was always afraid I was gonna tear that thing!

Chandler

 

[bfrench]

Hi, Guys,

Here's something that may help to get things back on track.

I measured the thickness of a G&B horsehide jacket with a pair of digital micrometers 0 too the leather, pulled the lining away, doubled the piece and measured it.

Got 1.455mm / 0.042"

Then found the following scale at a leather site - http://www.boatleather.com/material%20.htm

Here's the scale

Looks like mine is very close to a 3 oz leather.

Should be very easy to compare other leather jackets against this.

Bill French

 

[airfrogusmc]

Hey Bill,

The weight of the hide on my GW Dubow is 2 1/2 OZ...

 

[Chandler]

Should be very easy to compare other leather jackets against this.

That's pretty cool -- I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there's a chart like that out there. I'll see if I can find me a digital micrometer, or any micrometer, for that matter!

Chandler

 

[Chandler]

I measured the thickness of a G&B horsehide jacket with a pair of digital micrometers 0 too the leather, pulled the lining away, doubled the piece and measured it.

Got 1.455mm / 0.042"

Quick clarification? You doubled the piece, measured -- but then did you divide that measurement in half to come up with your total? Being doubled up and all.

Chandler

 

[Swing]

What truth, where? The truth is you follow me around and and start sh*t all because your a little petty b*tch.

Follow you around? As I've already pointed out, you're in every damn thread. You're like the skunk that was behind my house the other night, I can shut the windows and lock the doors, the stench will still creep in.

I'm done with this thread. Have fun talking to yourself.

~Swing

 

[airfrogusmc]

Buuubye lil guy.

I guess the threat of a restraining order worked :lol: :lol:

 

[Chandler]

Whole lotta Dale Carnegie graduates around here...

Can we get back to the weight measurement chart?

Chandler

(Uh, Allen, the double-laughers really add a lot of weight to the threat of a straining order) :roll:

 

[bfrench]

I measured the thickness of a G&B horsehide jacket with a pair of digital micrometers 0 too the leather, pulled the lining away, doubled the piece and measured it.

Got 1.455mm / 0.042"

Quick clarification? You doubled the piece, measured -- but then did you divide that measurement in half to come up with your total? Being doubled up and all.

Chandler

Hi, Chandler,

Affirmative.

Pull the lining away from the leather.

Double the leather - that is, make a fold.

Measure the fold.

Divide by 2 = 1 piece of leather thickness - compare this to the chart.

Should be able to extrapolate between the 2" measurement to the 4" measurement.

Bill French

 

[BONNIEGIRL4]

OH! good gravy, more rancor !!!!!!!!

 

[himelator]

The wrinkle on the hide is accounted for by two factors, one tanneries do in fact roll out hides to extend surface area and to eliminate blemish. This is a technique to get the most bang for the buck so to speak in the square foot department. The second aspect in tanning is the shrinkage of the hide, older tanning processes shrink the hide to compact the grain and fibres to make for a stronger hide, modern tanning process' try to avoid this as shrinkage can be above 30% of the sqaure footage, finally, wrinkles as the ones pictured reflect where the hide is cut. So if you take from the shoulder or around the hind quarters just like people these areas have lots of "character" because that is where the joint moves on the animal. Finally vintage makers used to avoid using character sections on the movable areas of the jacket as this was seen as "cheap" and bad workmanship in cutting, even though it is now seen as desirable and creating good character.

 

[T-Bolt]

The wrinkle on the hide is accounted for by two factors, one tanneries do in fact roll out hides to extend surface area and to eliminate blemish. This is a technique to get the most bang for the buck so to speak in the square foot department. The second aspect in tanning is the shrinkage of the hide, older tanning processes shrink the hide to compact the grain and fibres to make for a stronger hide, modern tanning process' try to avoid this as shrinkage can be above 30% of the sqaure footage, finally, wrinkles as the ones pictured reflect where the hide is cut. So if you take from the shoulder or around the hind quarters just like people these areas have lots of "character" because that is where the joint moves on the animal. Finally vintage makers used to avoid using character sections on the movable areas of the jacket as this was seen as "cheap" and bad workmanship in cutting, even though it is now seen as desirable and creating good character.

Interesting facts, himelator.....thanks for pointing those out!


Ted

 

[Chandler]

Finally vintage makers used to avoid using character sections on the movable areas of the jacket as this was seen as "cheap" and bad workmanship in cutting, even though it is now seen as desirable and creating good character.

Maybe vintage commercial jacket makers, but as the war ramped up I imagine the flight jacket manufacturers took whatever they could get -- as did the draftees and recruits.

Funny thing is, most modern FJ repro makers seemed to be using nice, smooth, unblemished hides until more enthusiasts started asking for grain -- and my 10+ year old ELC RW 1401 started smooth but now has a lot of grain character, so you'd have to surmise that grain isn't just a trait from certain sections, it can develop with time.

Chandler

 

[himelator]

The grain does develop but those heavy character cuts develop specifically from the movement areas of the joints on the animal. The reason they dont appear from the outset is the pressing "rolling" of the leather. I have spent a lot of time with vintage leather and at my local tannery. And yes, you are correct that utility manufacture used all parts of the animal skin, but usually the belly was reserved for liner, inside attachment etc... and joint were used where they wouldnt be worn out or areas of high stress, center cut pieces would be used for the back, and if it was a one piece back that would be considered extra ordinary, in the seventies is where you see a lot of patch work and hippy jackets and these are especially reflective of full use of "left over" pieces of leather. For example, Vanson when they first opened used to make a patch work hippy vest.