Most highly regarded leather grain?

[Anonymous]

Chandler:

the fact remains he (or any of us) were never in line to be handed an A-2 new from the box

Actually that's not exactly true- I bought an A-2 in 1980 or '81 that was "new in the box"- a Perry. It had typical 2.5 to 3 oz. leather and was relatively stiff but NOTHING like the Lost Worlds or other weird repros of today that'll literally take ten years to break in. This new in-the-box A-2 had very grainy leather- striated, gnarly spots and smooth areas also. This 1981 find still doesn't completely tell us what jackets were like in the 1940s (I do believe it had stiffened up over time) but period photos and films almost inevitably show drapey relaxed jackets- meaning if they were stiff they loosened up rather quickly IMO- not like the ironclads some repro makers would have us buy.

 

[bfrench]

Chandler:

the fact remains he (or any of us) were never in line to be handed an A-2 new from the box

Actually that's not exactly true- I bought an A-2 in 1980 or '81 that was "new in the box"- a Perry. It had typical 2.5 to 3 oz. leather and was relatively stiff but NOTHING like the Lost Worlds or other weird repros of today that'll literally take ten years to break in. This new in-the-box A-2 had very grainy leather- striated, gnarly spots and smooth areas also. This 1981 find still doesn't completely tell us what jackets were like in the 1940s (I do believe it had stiffened up over time) but period photos and films almost inevitably show drapey relaxed jackets- meaning if they were stiff they loosened up rather quickly IMO- not like the ironclads some repro makers would have us buy.

Just as a side thought about the repro leather - I wonder if the repro makers intentionally purchase / spec leather that is impervious to breaking in because a lot of their customers are maybe a one or two jacket purchasers in a lifetime.

These people don't want their jackets to show wear, have gnarly leather or any imperfections. They want a product as smooth and shiny as their new automobile.

At least that seems to be the consensus around the local airports where you see many of these jackets.

Maybe we are the oddballs after all.

Bill French

 

[airfrogusmc]

Bill thats one reason its SO HARD to find thin grainy horse hide because theres not a big market for it so the tanneries don't produce it. Several other reasons but I'm sure the market (or lack of) is the biggest deciding factor.

 

[Anonymous]

Bill:

ust as a side thought about the repro leather - I wonder if the repro makers intentionally purchase / spec leather that is impervious to breaking in because a lot of their customers are maybe a one or two jacket purchasers in a lifetime.

These people don't want their jackets to show wear, have gnarly leather or any imperfections. They want a product as smooth and shiny as their new automobile.

I think you're right- most repro makers since the 90's think their customers want smooth- I think Eastman had alot to do with that... "Eastman!" (said like Jerry Seinfeld saying "Newman!"...

 

[taikonaut]

The sourcing of hide in the manufacturing of jackets during the war can influence how the jacket turn out so you get hides of various thickness and grains in originals.
However if the manufacturers during the war has a slection of different varieties of hides all had variations of grains how will they go about making the jacket? Do they use one type of hide or combine the different varieties together?
When different varities of hides are used noticed the under arms often has the grainier softer hide, front pockets and sometimes the front left panel too maybe so pilots could reach inside shirt pocket or shoulder gun holster with right hand while still zipped up?

 

[Roughwear]

Andrew is that last photo close to the actual color of the Star?

It was taken at night under a lamp so in day light the colour is a little darker. However, there are colour variations in the leather, which appear original to the jacket. For instance a mid russet under the arms and a darker shade on the back and front sections of the body.

 

[shanghai joe]

The stuff that gets debated here..... :roll:

How can there be one "right" weight? There were over a million of these jackets made 60 years ago. Any weight you're seeing a current manufacturer offering today, you're sure to be able to find a vintage example that matches it.

Now, if you prefer a lighter weight jacket so it drapes better, and fits more comfortably, that makes it "right" for you. That doesn't make it "the most right, most bestest repro ever".

As for the grain everyone gets a hard on for, that's the belly of the beast, the lower quality leather. While I would like to have a bit of grain (a 90% smooth jacket with some gnarly grain on the belly or underarms would suit me), I'm not willing to pay $900+ for a jacket made with lower quality leather (no matter who is making it, or how much like the originals it is).

Back to the original question posed at the beginning of this thread before it became another advertisement for GW, for myself personally, the grain of a vintage jacket doesn't make it any more valuable or collectable in my eyes. The overall condition and originality of the jacket, the contract it's from, and it's size are far more important factors in deciding worth than grain.

~Swing

to some it's grain grain grain (think tora! tora!tora!)

to me I'll that that with a grain.........of salt

to me it's the rarity of the contract, the size and more importantly......provenance..... and of course grain...... but that's not on my top of the list........

I'm talking originals.......can A2 repros be provenanced..........to a modern day air jockey???

still to each his own..........if grain is your only criteria it makes life simpler..........so be it!

 

[Curahee]

Well maybe a little late but here's a pic of my new ELC house in Havana

 

[Anonymous]

Very nice, Curahee. Most of the folk here have never seen or touched one of the newer Eastmans. This morning, I like this hide:

 

[shanghai joe]

heard that elc has upped the game (not necessarily set and match) from a collector collague of mine........aaaaaah progress!

 

[airfrogusmc]

I have stated their new hides do look interesting and I am one that has owned several Eastmans and its about time they upped the game.

Most collectors could give rats ass about grain just most originals have some to quite a bit. Some collect for the jacket art/ squadrons etc. Some collect for contracts, some collect for groupings but most wouldn't collect for grain on an original its just us big guys that need alternatives to originals because of price have suddenly got some alternatives to the same ole, same ole which is nice. Would love to hear if ELC ever straightened out the knit issue that had?

 

[taikonaut]

Those 2 pictures of the Eastman looked encouraging. There is a couple of issues, the collar and particularly the pocket still very repro looking. Everything else hide wise look good.

 

[airfrogusmc]

That havana is cow right?

 

[Curahee]

No, it's horse and btw I have posted some pics on the repro section under ELC house A-2
in seal by Johny English.

 

[Roughwear]

No, it's horse and btw I have posted some pics on the repro section under ELC house A-2
in seal by Johny English.

It looks very much like wartime horsehide and I for one like it. I am looking forward to having a closer look at the leather at the ELC shop at the Duxford Spring Airshow next month.

 

[Anonymous]

Very nice, Curahee. Most of the folk here have never seen or touched one of the newer Eastmans. This morning, I like this hide:

OK- (although that hide looks like its had a little help) now all Eastman has to do is correct its pattern, fit and its overly squared off, perfectly straight unrealistic details and they'll be on their way! Give 'em another 10 years...

 

[airfrogusmc]

I refuse to buy from HPA... :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

...overly squared off, perfectly straight unrealistic details and they'll be on their way! Give 'em another 10 years...

I don't see any 'overly squared off, perfectly straight and unrealistic details' in the above photograph. And nor should you. It's a photo of an original jacket, a Monarch, not an Eastman. I think you just jumped to the wrong conclusion.

 

[Curahee]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Always nice to hear the "Experts" talk you learn something new here everyday :roll: Rotenhahn sag mal
woher bekommst du deine info ? von die Kneipe oder ? ...anyway thanks for that look into your psychy...oh Lordy you made
me smile :lol:

 

[shanghai joe]

whoooooooops forgot waht I was going to say