Knopf A2 from the 118th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron

Discussion in 'Vintage' started by Roughwear, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Thanks Vic, I will do. My guess is no one took much interest in Lubner's A2 when he died. His sons did not live with him and his daughter, with who he was living off loaded his USAAF stuff to a dealer, unaware of its significance or if she was aware sold it for a good price. I just need to see a decent picture of Lubner wearing his A-2!
     
  2. better duck

    better duck Active Member

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    1,200
    Location:
    Groningen, Holland
    Cool jacket, great review, and historical sleuthing, together with great photos (as usual :)) which together make a very interesting thread!
     
  3. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

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    have ya found out where lubner is buried, and were there any local obits? often these local obits will include service info to some degree. possibly membership in a local vfw, elks club, community service, etc. some even have older pix. point being, one may be able to back track from there. a long shot for sure, but all ya need is one thread to get hold of. "in 1984 lubner attended an organised dinner with former members of his old aaf outfit.......], for instance. an old unit buddy's family may have info, and or pix.
     
  4. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    I know he attended Flying Tiger Reunions Vic and am looking at pics of some of these on the net. I may even find one of him wearing his A2.

    Here is his obituary from 2003.
    "Marvin Lubner, 84, Sarasota, died Feb. 6, 2003. He was born Dec. 25, 1918, in New York City and came to Sarasota 17 years ago from there.

    He retired from the Air Force and General Electric Co. He graduated from Parks Air College in East St. Louis, Ill., and received a master's degree from

    the Air Force War College. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal and a Bronze Star. He was a member of the Daedalians, American

    Fighter Aces and the Flying Tigers. He was Jewish. Survivors include his daughter, Candace S. El-Azzaoui of Sarasota; sons John of Cheyenne, Wyo.,

    and Hardie Johnson of Enola, Pa.; a sister, Carole Russell of Trumbull, Conn.; five grandchildren; and three great-grandchildren. A service will be at 11 a.m.

    Tuesday at Toale Brothers Funeral Home, Gulf Gate Chapel. Burial will be in Florida National Cemetery, Bushnell. "
     
  5. Bombing IP

    Bombing IP Active Member

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    379
    Caveat emptor

    As time passes and with the Internet loaded with so much information helping both sides of the line .What used to be 30 years ago a simple project to track down information because you were dealing with live people . Has Become a daunting task because memories fade of the living who were around to bare witness . Then the other side of the line the unscrupulous who can turn an original A2 into a rare original worth $10,000 . With an investment of $1500 you can buy a real A2 and a real squadron patch . Two real period items married together with 70 year old thread that can be found everywhere at tag sales .The thread is the only clue to test the authenticity of the provenance of the pairing . Dealer are dealers and the long and short of it they are in it for the home run (the money) . Buying from the vet or the vets family is the only way to get an non upgraded artifact . I say this because I know lots of dealers and they all have stories of being taken by what they thought was real . Pappy Boyington is a good example how many original G1 jackets did he sell that he claimed that was used in combat , he was making them up .So the moral of the story the internet gives the cheats a window to where the easy money is ,and a blueprint on how to make it look real . 10 jackets cost is covered by the first one you sell not a lot of work and you have a nice little tax free salary 140k ,and the only hope that this does not happen is we expect people to be honest (that would be little or none ) .


    BIP
     
  6. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Thanks for these valid points. There are also the general dealers who buy in bulk from vet estates and sell items on and the significant of them/story behind them gets lost in the process. If only my jacket could talk!
     
  7. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Here is another picture I have recently found of Major Lubner taken in May 1945 at Laohwangping around the time he joined the 118th as CO. He is pictured 1st left of the front row.

    upload_2017-4-14_21-9-47.png
     
  8. 118th TRS

    118th TRS New Member

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    P39Pilots.jpg P39EJDavis.jpg

    Greetings all,

    Thought I would add a little to this thread. Lubner joined the 118th in May 1945 as a captain. Special order #45, dated 25 May 1945, has him going from HQ 23rd FG to the 118th. CO at the time was LtCol Simpson who relieved Capt. Watts on 01 May 1945. Lubner, still a captain, became CO on 10 June 1945 per order 11 dated the same date.

    Special order #145, dated 01 July 1945, has Lubner promoted to major. At the war's end, he transferred out of the 118th and did not return to the US with the squadron.

    My grandfather joined the 118th stateside when they flew P-39s and was one of the original members that left for the CBI in January 1944. I noticed a few photos from my website (www.118trs.com) in this thread. Here are two of my grandfather with the 118th patch on the P-39.

    I can rule out the jacket belonging to McComas as his is at the Air Force Academy. I have photos of it somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  9. 118th TRS

    118th TRS New Member

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    DSC05426 (1).jpg

    Here is McComas' jacket, size 38.
     
    Roughwear likes this.
  10. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your input here. I too ruled out McComas as I knew from original pictures he wore a Dubow and was of a smaller build than Lubner. This Dubow is in very well preserved condition suggesting it did not get much wear in China. The Knopf jacket in my collection is in similar condition too for the same reason I guess. I have seen your excellent site and been through all the photos there. We just need another of Lubner wearing his A2 showing a decent front view. All the pictures I have seen of him during his short spell as CO of the 118th show him wearing a tropical shirt and no A-2 jacket! There is a very slim chance there may be one from this time or from his service with the 76th FS, but I'm not holding out much hope. He used to attend 23rd FG reunions so this is a possible line of inquiry.
     
  11. 118th TRS

    118th TRS New Member

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    4
    William Nest's jacket was on eBay some time ago and went for over $2,000. Everson Pearsall's jacket was on display at a small museum and the museum closed. It sold his jacket without his knowledge. My grandfather's jacket was stolen off a moving truck in the late 70s. The only part I have is the silk flag that was sewn on the inside back. Not sure why it was taken off. Lynne Decker's B-10 is on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia.
     
  12. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    My research has ruled out all the senor officers in the 118th as owners of my Knopf A-2, apart from Lubner, and your own information is very useful. I can see no reason why my jacket was not Lubner's. The patch was almost certainly a post War addition, perhaps for reunions and un-stitched before it was sold. The fact that the jacket was worn by a major who later rose to the rank of Lt/Col as Lubner did post War is very interesting.
     
  13. 118th TRS

    118th TRS New Member

    Messages:
    4
    A few of the pilots stayed in or were recalled for Korea. Wilbur Kaven & Charles McMillin finished their careers as LTCs. Thomas Swaim retired as a COL. Frank Palmer retired in 1966, but I'm not sure of his final rank. There are probably a few more that I am forgetting.
     
  14. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this. Yes one of these chaps could have owned this A2 in WW2 but not as a major. Solid evidence would be needed though. The major's oakleaf holders might just have been stitched on post War. If you have any pictures of them wearing an A2 without a name strip I would love to see them. My jacket never had a name strip sewn on it.
     
  15. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    I have just found this small picture of Lubner wearing his A2. It's a shame it is so small but does reveal the box stitching on the epaulet, which appears to be a smaller box, typical of Knopf A-2s.

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    Similar shot of my jacket.
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  16. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Here are another two showing Lubner wearing his A-2 in a P-40 and the Knopf jacket from a similar angle. Notice the wider Epaulet in both pictures. When I enlarged the b&w picture I could see what appears to be the nickel smaller ring snap, which were only found on Knopf, Cable and Spiewak jackets, but the collar is not correct for these last two makers.

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