Discussion in 'Vintage' started by Roughwear, Feb 19, 2015.
Here is another picture of Lubner, but wearing his A2!
Are you sure ?
Oops-typo, but too late to edit. I meant NOT wearing an A2!
I am now in email contact with one of Lubner's children and hopefully will have confirmation one way or the other whether the A2 was his father's.
Man, this is a real cliff-hanger!!!
This is great, Andrew. Good luck!
Lubner's son is putting me in touch with other members of his family who know more about his A2. It seems that Lubner's jacket was sold to a dealer shortly after his death by his daughter, along with other USAAF stuff in his possession. I get the impression that John Lubner is unhappy that his father's jacket was sold, being an ex-air force NCO himself.
Long before he died Lubner removed the chest patch and the rank insignia and wore the jacket to paint his house. There were only a few specks of paint on the leather when I got my jacket. I say "my" because I still do not have conclusive proof it was Lubner's. Sadly there are no pictures of Lubner wearing his A2 whilst he served with the 118th TRS, only when he was a lieutenant in the 76th FS. At this time in 1943 the jacket was just a plain A2. Having studied the jacket in the photo of Lubner in his P-40 the jacket he wore could easily have been a Knopf A2. I will up-date this thread as soon as more information comes from family members.
Sadly the family members have gone quiet! I suspect there may be bad feelings on the part of the son that his sister sold their father's A2. However, I showed the jacket and the photo of Lubner in his A2 to Gary Eastman at Duxford last month. He studied the photo carefully and the folds on the collar and could see no reason why my jacket could not be the one in the photo. Again not absolute proof mine was Lubner's A2, but interesting nevertheless!
That's too bad. I was hoping you would get something interesting from the family. Maybe something will turn up at some point. It's been a fun thread to follow. I have a friend that also has quite a few 23rd Fighter Group related photos. I will ask him to look for any related to Lubner.
Thanks Jeff. It is a shame. I contacted all three of Lubner's children and was in communication with one of his sons. He knew little about the A2 and believed his sister sold it shorty after their father died. Reading between the lines of his emails he was unhappy that she had sold the jacket along with other memorabilia. He is ex-military himself and I suspect he would have wanted the jacket as he is very proud of his father's achievements (this is clear from is FB page). The last email I got from him said that he would contact his aunt who may have known more about the jacket, but despite several emails from me he has not replied at all. I will try just one more though.
Don't turn into a stalker!
Maybe be a part of that Facebook stuff. If he's posting about it there a few photos of the jacket may spark his interest a bit.
i have run into family "issues" several times when aquiring originals from family members, or tracing the original jackets owner back to remaining direct or extended family. i have encountered suspicion about my interest, "he-she sold what?" ambivalence, and lotsa "before my time". and, it gets harder as the what ever memories remain, fade. "when pop died, we just threw all of that paper work away, along with all of the war time stuff. you know, he never really talked about his war time experiences very much" brutal.
Very true. I've run into the same. I think almost everyone that has collected named jackets for a while has. Sometimes exchanges are pleasant and families are willing to provide more. Other times, not so much!
Vic, you have summed up the situation very well.
Sounds to me more like sibling rivalry might also be at work here. I know that had one of my sisters sold any of my late father's things there might have been some animosity.
Can't say I blame them.
Did the son want that jacket back???? If so, would you have been willing to have sold it back to him?
Basically, encountered the same situation with this jacket viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18582. As the jacket came to me via the son. Although I had the daughters info she would not return my calls or emails & she held all the cards.
As I also wanted pix of the original owner wearing that jacket and know very well that they were available.
Yes, Dave, I'm sure sibling rivalry has played apart. Lubner lived with his daughter at the time of his death and I suspect she sold his air force memorabilia to a dealer without the knowledge of her two brothers, or knowledge of precisely what was sold. John Lubner, who I have been in contact with, has not expressed any desire he wants the jacket back, assuming it is indeed his father's A2.
Just got a reply to my recent email from Lubner's son.
I have thanked him and asked if his sister can help as she was living with Lubner when he died. The story goes on....
Up-date. Sadly nothing more from the family. I am still looking for further pictures of Lubner wearing his A2 when he served with 76th FS and later with the 118th TRS, but no luck yet. I did show the A-2 and the picture of Lubner in his A-2 to Gary Eastman as Legends and he could see no reason why it is not the same jacket. When the collar is snapped down the folds are much the same as in the picture and the epaulet is relatively wide as on my jacket. I'm still hoping for definitive proof though!
the plot thickens. conversely, i have purchased originals from folks who were so happy that a person would be interested in the history of dad, mom, unc, grampa, etc, that they went out of their way to dig up paper work, old pix, even unused patches. ya just never know. whats more as time passes, the trail gets thinner. that said, there was a recent thread of an update about tracking down the history of an original a-2, which i found fascinating. needless to say, that kinda forensic work require patience, time and perseverance. i very dear commodity these days. if ya stay with it, andrew, ya just might hit pay dirt.